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TURTLE BAY ECO- What do you think?

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by ady1231, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    Hi Guys;

    This looks interesting. The land plots start from 15300 GBP, for a 500sqm land plot. Has anybody bought there? Do you think its a good investment? Location? etc..

    Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

    Cheers
     
  2. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Looks very nice - just requested Due Diligence on it recently so haven't got any feedback as to the legality of it yet apart from what the developer says - no reason to doubt them but as a matter of principle we do it on every development.
     
  3. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    The development plan for this lotemento is excellent as is their committment to provide all the service infrastructure before you complete on the land purchase. You then have only a short window to construct a house in order that the area is not a construction site for an unacceptable time. Price is something else- the cheap plots are furthest from the beach, which is why they are cheaper! There are plenty of other opportunities around these prices in Maracajaú (second line). I suggest a visit to Brasil before you commit to anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2008
  4. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    Hi;

    So you guys think it's worth the money? Has anybody bought there.

    They have 50% - 25%- 25% payment plan which looks good, and there is about 12% increase in March! Not sure whats the resale market like though!
     
  5. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    We do have clients who have bought there and just from the availability list you will see that it is selling well. However you should not look at selling on at present. Let all the infrastructure be completed then you could decide whether you build, or sell on. It promises to be a well managed resort condo in my opinion.
     
  6. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    Hi Michael;

    Are you selling at turtlebay? which plots would u recommend?

    Cheers
     
  7. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Yes we are selling at Turtle Bay. As to plot recommendations, I guess it depends on your own ideas. Beach side, Golf side, etc. The cheap plots are at the back but there are many around the £25000 mark in good positions. Do you have the plan layout? If not I can organise to send a file and availablility list with plans etc. by e-mail. This will come from our UK office as they have all that material there. Incidentally I think the 9-hole golf course there will be a success. The climate is not so humid as the NE plus the summer days are longer there.
    Regards
    Michael
     
  8. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    Turtle Bay.

    I evaluated this development when it was first launched nearly 12 months ago.
    It initially appears attractive though when the numbers are crunched, it rapidly loses its sheen and is essentially a triumph of marketing over substance.
    The eco concept is excellent and very much in tune with contemporary thinking ,though in practice, this is very much a diluted version.
    Turtle Bays only real claim to eco credentials is the use of local materials and a health spin which does little to differentiate it.
    There is no utlisation of wind power or solar energy for example ,so no low maintenance /zero energy advantages which are associated with a true Eco resort.
    Land plots from...is also misleading.The average price for a reasonable onsite location is 28K to 30K uk pounds for a 500m2 plot.At 58 pounds per m2 for non beachfront in a marginal location that is expensive.Plots at the front are well over twice that price.
    The payment plan represents an innovative way to spread costs,though construction costs quoted are bordering on extortionate and if the model elevations are indicative of the final product it looks quite a simplistic and inexpensive build.
    Also watch out for the small print in the contract which often accompanies a project of this nature-namely their right to apply indexation price increases.

    Be mindful also of the wider picture.The area is awash with plot deals including The Plantation marketed by Colliers,Belmonte Residences etc-with more on the way too apparently.
    What is the exit strategy and rental income potential in a circumstance where 1000's of plots are on sale-either from developers or owners who subsequently find that build costs have escalated due to the the continued strength of the Reai.If you do not build within a predetermined period you will be penalised via a substantial fine.
    How accessible is the site?
    The nearest International airport is 400 miles away at Salvador.
    Porto Seguro is basically a regional airport which principally accomodates internal flights and cannot be extended due to the local topography.So from the U.K. ,factor in 13 to 14 hours flight time,plenty of down time( waiting for a notoriously unreliable internal flight), a plane change and over an hours drive from Porto Seguro to the development itself.
    The Brazilians who touch down from Rio or Sao Paulo basically head South for Trancoso, not North to Belmonte

    IMHO there is far better value to be obtained in Fortaleza or Natal -the N.E of Brazil "proper"so to speak.
    More accessible,shorter flight times,(Belmonte is 1,000 miles South of Natal-in terms of weather think North!)more stable year round climate,more choice,keener prices.:)
     
  9. deedee1

    deedee1 New Member

    :)Hi all,

    I looked into this also and my main quiery was THE LOCATION?? And its accessability to get to also!!!!

    Brazil is a VERY BIG COUNTRY!!!!!!

    Take care-D:)
     
  10. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    The accessability re change of flight is a small issue in my opinion. Without flight delays my journey to Natal from Valencia entails 20 hours or more journey door to door, due solely to flight changes in Lisbon.(8hrs without delays) However I would agree there are many other areas available, and I already posted about that,. This resort at Turtle Bay does offer fixed construction prices for the 3 year period and fixed in Sterling. That was brave!! It is not exactly a self build, so you would expect to pay more than a local construction cost, if you are not organising the build yourself. The fact that all infrastructure is in place before final payment also gives some comfort as to the committment to quality.
     
  11. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Sorry had to post again in 2 parts - dont know why!

    I have not visited the area myself, but the presentation of the resort plan together with the other developments in the area I think is realistic. As you say prices are not cheap, but there is a big infrastructure cost included in the price. That is not the case with lotamentos like those nearer Forteleza. I personally prefer the Natal area, which is why I live here, but also I reiterate you must visit Brasil to get the feel of the country. Do not look to buy anywhere without taking at least a holiday here!
     
  12. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    guys the picture is still not clear, if you dont like turtlebay, what is the alternative? Closer to Natal? please give prices?
     
  13. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    Turtle Bay.

    Mike,
    Beg to differ on this occasion.An internal flight change in Brazil is anything other than a minor issue.I have yet to accomplish it in under 4 hours and that includes even comparatively short flight times from Fortaleza to Natal (40 minutes)
    Nothing "brave" either in quoting build costs at approx twice the current going rate-just slick marketing pitched at those who do not have hands on knowledge of such issues.Basically all Turtle Bay have done is already fully factor in future price increases.Anyone electing to build short term is paying a hefty premium and is also to a large extent subsidising later builds.

    Ady1231 would be better off purchasing one of your plots at Maracajau and commissioning his own build,or alternatively,if he is seeking a gated resort community, Sanctuary Bay Ecovillage in Natal.When i met the developer last month they were talking 450m2 second line beach plots at circa £18k pre launch and build costs of £360 to £370 sqm-approx half the price of Turtle Bay!:)
     
  14. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    I agree the build cost is high, but there is a decent profit for people who have the expertise to contract and manage their own build. those who dont live here have pay a profit to someone else. No constructor will sell at cost! You also have to look at what is included in the build, for 1000R$ per m2.
    Certainly I agree that Maracajaú offers a certain profit without building anything, and land investment is a very good option. I have numerous opportunities in the Rio Grande do Norte, and Ady is most welcome to come to see them. He will not be able to buy easiliy without visiting Brasil, the process of Power of Attorney can be quite expensive and complicated, although we can arrange for his CPF number without him being in Brasil.
     
  15. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    There is no fine or restriction on building times. There are "suggested" building dates for buyers, the "proposed times" being not before Q3 2010 and no later than Q2 2011.

    The accessibility didn't concern me too much, because although there is a need for a second, internal flight, for International arrivals Salvador itself welcomes 4 times the amount of arrivals per year than Natal. More than Recife and Natal or Natal and Fortaleza together. Because of this, the chance that some of the 6 million yearly arrivals (or the 3 million inhabitants of Salvador) may be prepared to fly to Porto Seguro to their second residence seemed more likely. Also, the airport is connected with numerous other domestic airports in Brazil.

    Porto Seguro - Airport info - Unconfirmed - Source Sectur
    High Season: 90 flights a week
    Low Season: 30 flights a week

    High Season: 18 international flights per month
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
  16. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Hi Ady, It is not that I do not like Turtle Bay, I have not visited there. The deal there I believe is fine. However as I have previously posted there are a lot of possibly better options nearer Natal. You cannot simply provide a list of prices and locations on a Forum such as this, but certainly you will find a good plot or plots if you come to visit. The reason I like Maracajaú is that there are several developments projected and being constructed there, so land is certain to increase in value, as the place grows. I have mentioned sample prices in earlier postings here and given current exchange rates. There are not many of us from the forum actually living here permanently, so may I suggest that you Private Message me with some indication of what you could be looking for, and the sort of level of investment you are thinking of. I can then select some current offerings for you.
     
  17. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Or he may like a plot in Genipabu in a closed condo- 30 x 15m for around £4500! Just come on the market direct from a brasilian owner.
     
  18. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    Turtle Bay.

    JM,
    I can assure you there WILL be a fine for those who do not build in their zone within a predetermined time.This is in order to prevent the resort from degenerating into a perpetual building site.

    To quote the developers propectus:
    "you will need to pay an annual penalty to the community for the disruption caused by later construction.This will be an agreed annual penalty for failing to commit to construction before the agreed date.It will be sufficient to make it pointless to hold onto the plot".
    So not only will there be a fine-it will be a very substantial one.

    The only conclusion i can draw from those who claim to be not overly concerned with the necessity of another internal flight at the end of an arduous Transatlantic jaunt is that perhaps they have not done it that often-internal flights really are a nightmare.

    This however, to a large extent is missing the point somewhat;that being that there is little purpose in subjecting oneself to this lengthy trek when not only are there better alternatives available ,but they are also infinitely more accessible.:)
     
  19. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    Hi, Please give me more about this plot, and what options do i have in majracao? i can visit brazil in 4 weeks time.

    Cheers
     
  20. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    I assume you are referring to the one in Genipabu- it is in a lotamento called Colinas do Genipabu, and I understand that there are several houses already constructed. As it is new on the market, I have to visit it when in the area so I can take photos etc. It is not however really close to the beach- I would say around 500m or so. It apparently has views, as it on a hill.

    In Maracajaú there are many options - plots on the beach, second line, large plots to develop, or small plots for just one house, or you can look at our site and there you will see that you can buy a beach house complete. If you are coming here in 4 weeks, give me all the details I requested and I will prepare an itinerary for you to see various options.
     
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