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TURTLE BAY ECO- What do you think?

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by ady1231, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Hi fresh,

    Thanks for your reply mate...

    It's true that we have to pay attention to the prospects of the exact location we are investing.

    As you say I have always had the suspicion that in most of the properties advertised world-wide, which the overseas investors buy are meant to attract foreigners, and they do that job (of attracting exited investors)
    quite well.

    And the prices as well as projected prospects for these will always be at a premium to the actual local scene; that's because of the high inflow of foreign funds.

    Ofcourse they may appreciate in value - but I guess that the reason could be that more foreigners are getting wooed rather than any real develpment or change in the local sense.

    To answer your questions, I am looking only in an investment angle, I might not stay there myself.

    Rental or capital appreciation prospects ? I am not particular about either one of this, as long as the return is decent enough to justify investment at such a location. But I do think rental prospects in developed nations would be more secure an investment compared to investing in a off-plan at an uninhabited area.

    Gee

     
  2. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Hi Wolfgang,

    Thanks for your comments on the property agents.

    Gee

     
  3. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Hey all !!

    I need your views...

    Turtle Bay prices have been hiked by the developer as promised earlier...
    ...and I am being offered to buy a plot at the earlier price which is some 15% less... Well this is because I had shown interest earlier and in principle registered for it, though I havent paid a penny...

    Do you think it is a good offer ?

    I do get these doubts :

    1) If the demand is really so great, why not they sell it to someone at the current price instead of offering me at 15% less price

    2) Even in good faith on the developer, whatever price increase we are talking about are only the prices quoted by the developer. When it comes to selling your property, are there real takers and for the price we would quote ?

    3) The price Brazilian residents would pay for the same property would be much less... so they arent the ones who are gonna be the potential buyers when owners decide to sell in the open market !!

    Gee
     
  4. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Bahia seems to be developing !!

    Recently from my busness contacts I learnt that four of the global Tire majors are setting up manufacturing facilities in Bahia.

    Looks like there are many other industries coming up as well including automobile players...

    May be the north-east is not anymore the uninhabited land as much as we thought it was.

    Developing, huh... Then reality boom could be a possibility, I guess !!

    Gee
     
  5. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    Salvador and Recife are undoubtedly the two major economic engines in the northeast.
     
  6. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    Hi;

    Turtle bay is a good development, no doubt, golf, hotels etc..

    I beleive the prices are a bit high for the region. This is the dilemma i faced, i had to choose between Turtle Bay and Coconut Grove, which i finally bought a first line to the beach plot.

    Prices on both projects have gone up, you just have to choose which one suits you.

    Cheers
     
  7. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    Turtle Bay

    Gee69,
    In answer to your question,the fact of the matter is that Turtle bay has not sold very well at all. Neither did it sell well the last time around either when they first launched it back it April of last year.In fairness though they did launch too soon before they were properly organised and had planning permission.

    It is a good development and now has the added credibility of David Lloyd but is way too expensive because they have made the marketing error of fixing prices too far into the future.This means in effect that all the early purchasers are subsidising later purchasers.You hit the nail on the head yourself really when you raised the question as to why you were being offered "old" prices if there was lots of demand for the plots.
     
  8. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    To clarify,ZENs initial allocation of 64 plots has been fully reserved.
    From December of last year ASCL have worldwide exclusivity on all sales.There are no other sellers.
    Prebooked ads are still running and details of interested parties are being recorded in strict rotation of contact for a future release -the timing of which has yet to be finalised.
     
  9. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Thanks for the clarification wolf...

    I also note that these ads mention a minimum price of 37,500 UK pounds (villa ?!) ... I understand there was an offering of plots @ 8996 & 17k+ ....

    Must be the total built up price on the ads...

    Anyway... good work mate !!

    Gee
     
  10. ady1231

    ady1231 New Member

    wolf, could you please give me more info about this development? what is it called, where is it located?
     
  11. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Did you ever get a due diligence report on either of them? I've been waiting for months now and they simply can't provide the legal docs I need.
     
  12. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    As I'm certain you know JM, that is never a good sign. It amazes me how someone can start to sell a project and then when one asks for doc's such as land titles, architectural projects, and all building approvals, etc., and they tell the potential clients that they will be provided and then you never hear back from them.......very telling.
     
  13. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Absolutely agree.

    We don't advertise this development or any other development before everything (not just the legal side) has been thoroughly checked by our team and our lawyers and we have copies of every document on file in our offices.

    So yes I agree with you that anyone who sells a product without having at least read and verified the required documentation is doing themselves and their clients a major disservice. Sadly not all agents take the extra time and effort to research the product they are offering.

    Classic example was a development which was being offered to agents around the world as a luxury exclusive development of only 100 units however buried deep in the accompanying legal jargon which the agents received (in Portuguese) it stated that the development was 3000 plots in total the size of Monaco, would not include water or sewage on the plots and the road to the development would not be tarmacced. Most agents couldn't or didn't read it so the fact that the developer was voluntarily offering a legal document made a lot of people feel comfortable about offering it to their clients even though they couldn't understand it.

    Three different European agencies offered it to me for us to sell and not one of them had noticed those "small details".
     
  14. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    Well it certainly sounds as if you do your due diligence. It must be done everywhere...but especially here in Brazil.
     
  15. Gee69

    Gee69 New Member

    Due Diligence

    Guyz,

    In case the developers or property agents are not coming out with the docs within a reasonable time frame after payment of the reservation fee, I guess investors would be better off cancelling the deal...

    May be there are ppl who proceed anyway and complete the deal, without due diligence !!

    Cheers,

    Gee
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  16. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    The agents should have checked them before offering them to their clients - it's part of the reason to use an agent.
     
  17. Simon Eaton

    Simon Eaton New Member

    I am buying in coral beach resort, similar project, can anybody give me a non biased comparrison please?
     
  18. Simon Eaton

    Simon Eaton New Member

    I have read the above, I have not checked coconut grove but saw it advertised tonight. I have received due diligence documents and a dd report from their lawyer for coral beach, the developer is building roads and has also provided proof of application and approval for the infrastructure from the secretary of infrastructure. If all documents check out would you recommend an investment like this? Who are your legal team and what is their experience in Brazil, please provide me your lawyer details, as I would like them to assist me perhaps. Many thanks in advance.
     
  19. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    Secretary of infrastructure? :D Never knew there was such a position. Make sure they have FINAL building approvals from the city hall (prefeitura), state environmental people (Adema is the name in Sergipe-they have other similiar names in other states) IBAMA (federal environmental dept.), the state department of highways (name varies from state to state), the department of the federal gov't. (união) that is responsible for "terreno da marinha", or land close to the sea, if applicable, etc.

    The KEY in all this being FINAL approvals....a "licensa previa" is a pre-approval, and although good to have, and necessary, there are MANY things that can and do go wrong from that stage to the final stage.
     
  20. Simon Eaton

    Simon Eaton New Member

    thank you for your reply, I have been checking out, and there is a secretary of infrastructures. Also, the FINAL building approvals would be classified as "detailed planning permission", you seem to have missed the point, I am buying land, not a house. A house would have the final approvals, land needs to be in regulation for construction, with a SEMACE license in place. This is from the mouth of a lawyer I know who have offices there.

    The documents you have detailed above are actually incorrect for this type of investment, what is the state department of highways, and what do they have to do with anything?

    The sergipe I believe is called SEMACE in the area I am reviewing.

    I have been told that basically I buy the land, I have asked for a copy of the local authority docs to prove this area will be able to be built on. Once I have that I will apply for detailed permission to build the villa that I want.

    Licensa previa comes once the project is underway and nearly finished. As in a BUILDING.

    Please keep assistance fromnow on reliable, as the ionformation above is not correct for the investment I am considering.

    But thank you anyway.
     
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