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Brazil - Promotion, Hype and Facts

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by Graymax, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. nigelallen

    nigelallen New Member

    I go into Salvador quite a bit, never had any trouble, been lucky because almost everyone who goes their has a story to tell, you got to be street wise and stay out of certain areas, I remember when Airtours first started to go their, the staff stayed in Salvador for the 2 weeks, Airtours couldn't of picked a worse area for the hotel for them, The captain ventured out in Salvador twice in the fortnight and got mugged twice, now that is bad luck.
    Its a shame really because if you go north of Salvador, up the coconut coast its a different world, no crime at all, people very friendly and helpful and a beautiful place to be
     
  2. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    I go to Salvador every month, sometimes twice a month, and in 2005 I spent as much time, or even more, in Salvador than I did in Aracaju, and I have never had anything bad happen....knock on wood. But I hear what you're saying Ray, the taxi drivers in Salvador are the worst I've ever had experience with anywhere......I did get into an argument with one of them once. Many will try to rob you, or at least take you for a "ride", figuratively speaking.

    But one does have to be very careful, in any city anywhere in Brazil. Just because one is not in a big city doesn't make one safe. And statistically speaking the most dangerous places in brazil aren't the big cities, but in smaller towns in the interiors of states.

    And you're right Nigel, going north on estrada do coco there are very nice areas extending all the way to Costa do Sauipe, and today there are condominiums being built by foreign groups all the way to the Sergipe/Bahia state line.


    True Dotty, if there is one piece of advice that members of this forum take from me, please let it be this, if/when being robbed in Brazil NEVER attempt to fight back, be difficult, not hand over any possessions you may have, etc. Let them take what they want. Every single person that I know that has gotten shot in Brazil has attempted to not give the thieves what they asked for or attempted to fight back, not did exactly as they said, etc. I understand that, especially in the states, this is not an uncommon reaction, if/when one does that here in Brazil, these people shoot immediately. They have no qualms whatsoever with pulling the trigger of a gun, the consequences don't even enter their minds.

    Thats scary.After the incidents in Natal with the shottings on the beach and in PN a friend went for a night sit with her boyfriend on the beach in Natal.It was early hrs 3am I believe .A gun was put to their heads and the robber threatened to kill them if they did not hand over their mobile and the small amount of money they had on them on them.
    The bad thing is that in Brasil they just pull out a gun for small robberies like drinking a glass of water and they damn well use it.It is not a joke.There are many horror stories!
     
  3. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Well I've go tthe tee shirts now, one robbery (car break in) and one card cloning. The only thing I have learned is never, never drop your guard and assume things are cool and relaxed. Do a number of things to cover your back, carry a spare phone with you travel and get a spare sim card from your operator, just in case. Use a tatty old phone when you are there that doesn't bother you and so you don't mind losing it or handing it over. Card cloning, I would say don't go to typical Gringo ATM's in beach areas always use ones inside Banks where cloning kit is less likely. Get a credit ard affiliated to HSBC as I reckon they are best equipped to work as an international bank.....check your credit card account online every few days..just in case it has been cloned..so you don't have all the explaining to do when yu get home...fortunately mine was done after I left the counrty so I had evidence. Get your passport fotocopied and "authenticated" it cost me £3 to do it at a Carteria/Notary..even better get the copy laminated..so if sxxx happens you've got a legal copy. If you are British get a second passport, which is perfectly permissable, if you need to carry your passport when out, carry the second one so the one you used for entry is safe back at the hotel. Then, if the other one is lost or robbed, you can get out of the country when need be. Don't lose your entry slip and make sure an elastic band keeps it in the passport. It's an awful hassle to get new docs abroad. Get an International Driving licence or just carry you national one as ID. But all these tips apply to tourist visits, residents are different I am sure..and last but not least, don't think, it sounds a bit over the top doing all that! Don't drop your guard.
     
  4. Raimundo

    Raimundo Guest

    Great advice Golfingworld! :)
     
  5. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member


    Don't check your accounts online at an internet cafe....my bank account had unauthorized debits after I went to an internet cafe in south Bahia. Thank goodness my account at the time had an online daily limit of 300 reais and I discovered what happened the day after it happened. Banco do Brasil is so accustomed to this that they refund your money normally within 24 hours.
     
  6. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    A good few yrs ago we were in the elevator in Pelorinho.The doors closed behind us a group of around 7 people entered the lift.My partner had a rucksack on the back(cameras etc inside).They were of mixed age 6yrs old to 15 .Somebody dropped a coin on the floor and the person in front of my partner bent over and everybody veered back as my partner veered backwards they intelligently dipped the rucksack so professionally for kids so young and off the went.It took us 3 hrs to notice when we wanted to take a photo and then it all clicked in.15 yrs on the police intelligance contacted my partner to say they had the suspects who were a well organised gang and would we like to press charges!We turned the other way.
     
  7. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    That's in any internet café

    Whenever you go to an internet café you can be sure keylogging software is running - it's how most of them make their money.
     
  8. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    My sister had her account drained this way whilst she was on holiday in Indonesia, her bank refunded the money, which is pretty normal these days.

    If you have a bank account that gives you a special card to use when you log on then the information they get is useless. I have 2 types of them, one is a little keyring with a digital display which shows a number that changes every minute, and the other is a plastic card with a series of random numbers on it.

    So to log in you need your user id, your password and a number from the keyring or the card. If all 3 are not correct you can't get access. Even when someone looks at the keylogger records and sees your password and username, they are useless without having access to the card or the keyring as the number you need to type in will not be the same as the last time.

    I don't know why more banks don't do this as it would save them a fortune, I guess it is cheaper to just refund people's money.

    I use this to access my accounts anywhere without problems.
     
  9. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    It's not surprising really I mean if you google "keylogging software" you get a million and one download options which when installed on your machine record all passwords anyone types so it's not just in Brazil :)
     
  10. Graymax

    Graymax New Member

    depressed prices!

    Why the hell is it good news to have prices for property depressed, is it that you either can,t afford to buy anywhere in a competitive market, or are you just one of those people who hate to see anyone doing something that you either can,t afford to do or are too frightened to do, I am sick of hearing negatives from you and Dotty about the northeast of Brazil, if it is so bad why are you constantly on this forum, you should be able to find other threads to spread your doom and gloom, surely there must be a thread for China, or Russia, where nobody want,s to buy, and then at least someone will agree with you.
     
  11. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Why the hell is it good news to have prices for property depressed, is it that you either can,t afford to buy anywhere in a competitive market, or are you just one of those people who hate to see anyone doing something that you either can,t afford to do or are too frightened to do, I am sick of hearing negatives from you and Dotty about the northeast of Brazil, if it is so bad why are you constantly on this forum, you should be able to find other threads to spread your doom and gloom, surely there must be a thread for China, or Russia, where nobody want,s to buy, and then at least someone will agree with you.

    You are right my friend, can't afford it, or at least my second one in Brazil! Let me answer in great detail as to whymyself and Dottly keep highlinghting the "reality" rather than the "spin" from those who prefer to claim facts or perceptions which are not real.

    Only 2 days ago I received a call from a UK property agent trying to sell me a property in a development near Maracajau and he told me to "buy quick as prices are rising fast and will increase 30% at the end of the month". Of course, this is complete nonsese as per many of the statements Agents have tried to make over the last few years.

    Clearly, there are many here that would prefer that myself or Dotty were not here then it would be more difficult for some to peddle "hype" to try and prolong a false boom in sales and prices. The offplan or overseas investment premise only works if people believe the concept of "buy now whilst stock last". Once the investor realises that he is better to wait..the concept collapses.

    As for dropping or lower prices, that entirely in the interest of buyer, but of course not sellers. Is this reflected in your post. Artificially inflated prices are no good to anyone in the end, otherwise you end up with a "sub prime" type crisis based on cheap loans or speculation where real economic fundamentals have not been applied. Then markets can collapse hurting all those except the ones that earned commissions and the ones who got in and out early.

    Maybe if we are not careful, a "sub prime" property crisis might spread round the world sooner than we hoped!

    Does this help explain the basic economic theories to you?
     
  12. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Graymax,

    The reality is not of negativity,but more of common sense!Until flight prices come down and there is easier access to Natal and not only Natal, there will not be hoards of holiday makers buying in Natal or any other destination at present by the bucket load.There are overseas investors ,of course there are,but there could be 1,000 s more too!Are you an agent by any chance??
     
  13. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Dotty, it's simple. It is not easy trying to sell of plan homes in Brazil when the flights are infrequent and the most expensive in the world, when existing property values elsewhere are dropping, when cheap easy finance has disappeared and the last thing on most people's mind now is a home in an exotic country where they can't get to cheaply!

    I wonder what caused this this financial credit crunch and sub prime property collapse in the first place?
     
  14. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Graymax, you have assumed a lot about me and my comments, most all wrong! Firstly, I have bought in Brazil, upfront and not on a loan or staged payments, so that rules out your jealousy theory. Secondly, I didn't buy for profit or gain....nor did I buy to let. Thirdly, I bought because I too like Brazil although I am realistic enough to realise that it is nowhere near the utopia some paint it to be. Why are low prices good, because it means that more people can take advantage rather than the artificially inflated prices that the "off plan" market attempts to create. This does nobody any good in my view as people get sucked into it and some can get into difficulty with this speculation. If you are a UK resident you'llknow what is happening to "buy to let" which is really "off plan overseas" on home territory. You'll also know about the Costas. But, go to 100 Brazilian property websites and you will be told, "cheap easy access/flights", stable currency, booming economy, new infrastructure, rising prices, investment gains etc etc. How many say flights are 30% more expensive than elsewhere..only one real airline operating, a 20% increase against Sterling, difficulty in getting a bank account and re-patriating profits/rents? So before you get irked because some of us face reality, then by getting "learned" it might help some people to make a valued judgement and not get into a mess they didn't bargain for. It is known as balanced opinions. Mine and Dotty's are at one end and yours at the other..that's what forums are for, notfor hounding some out because others don't want to hear the bad news!
     
  15. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Investing in a country is having the foresight to see the path it has been on and where it is going not necessarily where it is now. Once again, although there are 1000 agents out there stating that prices will increase by 30% by the end of the month, there are also many out there who are realistic.

    However, you must be the first person I've heard of who is delighted at the prospect of potentially losing money. Congratulations to you for going against the flow, but you'd do better to give it to charity.
     
  16. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    You are only losing money if you sell something and if you don't sell it you haven't lost money! You don't go to a restaurant for steak and chips, pay £15 then when you see it allegedly on offer at £12 next week say "I lost money on that steak and chips"!

    In other words you pay to enjoy something, you don't go back every week and check the menu to see if last weeks steak has gone up or down do you!

    This is the whole point of my criticism of the hype....all these off plan sellers are claiming investment gains or profits and the only way to convince their "investors" that their claims are correct is to keep increasing the prices. This is fine when there is demand, but whenthere isn't it creates a false and precarious market.....anyone own an inner city "buy to let" apartment in the UK? You'll know exactly what I mean!

    The reality is that 2nd home property or whatever you choose to call it, which is pre-paid in instalments prior to completion is sold entirely on "capital gain" or "by the time you move in it will have increased in price". Nobody sells forward on the basis that there will be losses..otherwise, why buy forward? What this industry has done is buck economics and thousands have jumped on the bandwagon thinking there is easy money to be made. Well Banks worldwide found out the hard way, so did many owners either in Michigan, Malaga or Marrakesh that what goes up might come down! And if it comes down, you'd have been better off waiting and buying one of those!
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2008
  17. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    So you think that people are qualified as the "richest person in the world" because they have the most 20 pound notes under their matresses? Or because the joint value of what they own is more than anyone else?

    It's called assets. If you have an asset and the value of that asset drops, you have lost money. You just claimed that you were delighted that the value of your asset in Brazil had dropped. Hence, you go against the flow of 99% of the rest of the world who would prefer to make money rather than lose it. It seems to happen a lot with you though, like the bridge over the river Potengi.

    Everyone else in Natal says it was worth building, you say it wasn't.

    I applaud you for your uniqueness. Oh and you would do well to stop quoting Spain as an example of a bad investment considering the fact that millions made millions there. Investing in a property market is also about timing, the same way investing in stocks is about timing. You don't buy right at the top or when prices are going down, you buy when you believe they will go up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2008
  18. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Hi Golfingworld,

    You are absolutely right! To make money today in Brasil is not nearly quite the same as in the past because the rises in value are far smaller and there are millions more choices,also the uncertainty overseas which is real and not some fabricated nonsense is effecting sales ,along with the flight prob,so there willl be crash in prices at some point and to close ones eyes and think that Brasil is untouchable are naive! Somebody wrote in an earlier thread about investing to sell on to Brasilians and not just assume because there are foreign buyers to target that area.Well he is right because there are millions more brasilian buyers than foreign ones and they are far more easier to sell to.

    Happy selling (non-agent)
     
  19. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Well John,

    Buying is all about timing,but you also need buyers to buy and sell to am I right?Well if you cannot get here easily in the 1st place how will do you think that will affect the property prices and with the overseas property crunch in place right now and looks unfortunately likely to carry on for a while at least from 2 of the richest countries in the world it would be foolish to say everything is going to go through the roof .Now people did make millions in Spain(the investors who invested yrs ago)it is also 2 hrs away and 40,00 pounds to get to now Spain are going through a property slump and now is the time to buy in Spain,just as within the next 2 yrs will be the time to buy in the UK,why would you buy in Brasil when the prices are at there most overinflated??
     
  20. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Dotty,

    Spain wasn't cheap to get to 20 or even 10 years ago it certainly wasn't 40 of today's pounds. Also the travel times once you got here were not good at all, i.e. 2 1/2 hours from the airport to Marbella on a single lane highway, I can do the same drive now in 30 minutes, and I have a friend who does it in 20 mins but at considerably higher speeds than me.

    If prices of property in Brazil is so over-inflated why are so many people both local and foreigners buying?

    I was in Switzerland until yesterday morning talking to developers, investors and bankers and they are going mad about the place.

    I also heard (and saw the documentation to back it up) that there are also some buyers going through buying up large amounts of units in developments in one go.

    We have a couple of US investors buying up big as well. So whilst your average punter may not be buying, a lot of other people are.

    But back to over-inflated, do you mean the median price is over-inflated or just some developments & areas are over-inflated?

    If the later then I agree with you, and the market should rectify that quickly enough, it is already as some types of developments in some areas are not selling at all and probably won't for years.

    If the former, then have a look at the prices in places like Buzios near Rio, they are still selling there.

    BTW, you would love to see some of the gumpf that gets offered to us, you wonder if some of these people have any commercial sense at all. We even had one developer who has an interesting project but insists that all payments are sent into Sweden so there is no chance your money is ever registered in Brazil. What is worse this guy openly admitted not having consulted a Brazilian lawyer once about the contracts, so I doubt anything is even legal with this development yet he is building it!
     
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