WARNING- get out before you get in

[Lysos]

Marian,

A lot of naive people gambled money they couldn't afford to lose on what they thought was a one way bet on Dubai property. As for Peter's belief in a relatively quick recovery in the Dubai property market, personally I think he couldn't be more wrong; it was always a speculative bubble, the modern equivalent of the Dutch tulip bulb scenario.

 

[jonwell]

hi,
sorry i have been very busy with my new project didn't get the time to post anything on here.

i will read all the posts on here and see if i can answer any.. still my thoughts and views are the same on dubai.
by the way did you all miss me.......:congrats:

 

[guidecca]

oh by the way if i told you where to put your money in where we going to you could make 17% return within 28 days.....

and yes it is some where in the US

Here are the facts about the United States economy. For every dollar the federal government spends 43 cents (or percent) is borrow and most is borrow from China. If China stops lending to the U.S. which it will do if China determines that the U.S. is creating an unsustainable deficit (debt). A CD (certificate of deposit) which is the safest place to put your money will pay about 2 percent interest for an 18 month commitment. Investing in solar energy or in something that reduces monthly expenses is the only way I know to get a good return on investment.

My views are taken from watching CSPAN in the U.S. I hope Dubai can come back. I do not understand why they had to build the tallest building in the world. It is probably male machismo. Maybe a woman in charge of Dubai's economy would help. Women seem to know how to save money. Kind regards to all of you.

 

[guidecca]

Hello all

oh by the way if i told you where to put your money in where we going to you could make 17% return within 28 days.....

and yes it is some where in the US

Here are the facts about the United States economy. For every dollar the federal government spends 43 cents (or percent) is borrowed and most is borrowed from China. If China stops lending to the U.S. which it will do if China determines that the U.S. is creating an unsustainable deficit (debt) the United States as you know it will collapse. A CD (certificate of deposit) which is the safest place to put your money will pay about 2 percent interest for an 18 month commitment. Investing in solar energy or in something that reduces monthly expenses is the only way I know to get a good return on investment.

My views are taken from watching CSPAN in the U.S. I hope Dubai can come back. I do not understand why they had to build the tallest building in the world. It is probably male machismo. Maybe a woman in charge of Dubai's economy would help. Women seem to know how to save money. Kind regards to all of you.

 

[guidecca]

I agree re: Slave labor

laugh as much as you all like but nothing far from the truth today i was talking to investors in dubai, yes i do have a few crazy friends who still own dying business there, but any way as i have learnt a villa priced at $4 million dollars is now available for $2 million dollars and a famous footballer is loosing $70000. dollars a month on his 3 villas and also to make it worse a car racing driver is loosing $100,000 dollars A WEEK.

the company who sends people to other countries for labour where there is labour shortage is no long wishes to do so,

you talk about DUBAI is so modern than saudi arabia well people from countries like india and pakistan have had tens of thousands of workers who have arrived in dubai and dubai has not paid any of them.

i will tell you what modern dubai is, it's a place where people have been shipped in by other countries through rougue agencies and men have put up construction work without health and safety and long hours have been given to them with less time to themselves so when someone says DUBAI IS THE DREAM it's a nightmare for those who have suffered inthe hands of these people and their passport taken off them by the employer and they have always been threatened, there are more young child prostitutes shipped to dubai as for maids but used for other sexual purposes... it's shame on those you call it a dream.

nearly 500 women were shipped every month from poor countries for this sort of work nad you call it modern.

i have been to dubai and spoken to workers so many times, they are not even allowed to go where tourists are because of the clothes they wearing...dubai i can say offers slavery and there's plenty there going on.

Construction workers haven't been paid and do you know how hard it is to work in really hot weather...then they don't get paid.

if you don't believe go and ask a worker, maybe your apartment is built upon slave labour,
you can all laugh but anyone who has value left should sell and get out.


NOW FOR THE REAL THING:
DUBAI'S property crash i would say has just began after it's 6 year growth, property prices are coming down by 6% pluss every month and if you live there you will see many places incomplete i really thing the average investor should come out of dubai and believe me it's only a dream. there's nothing to be part of and allways remember that when you bought in any investment you should leave the emotional side out of it.

there are as many as 65% who are british orgins who own a slice of this and the numbers are falling rapidly.
celelbs who bought huge villas and pads are selling and the clever ones have sold.

Dubai's government has been cruel to workers from third-world countries since I first visited in 1999. The dream of Dubai has been built on the backs of the poor who are even worse off in their own countries like the Philippines. I pray that the government will do the right thing and hold developers accountable. Workers and contractors will NOT work if they are not paid.

If Dubai does not recover (but I think it will naively) it will be just. There is a saying that "what comes around goes around." Now it is Dubai's turn to fall. It has been slave labor that has propped up the rich governments of the world. How fitting that "Humpty Dumpty has taken a great fall and all the king's horses and all the king's men cannot put Humpty Dumpty together again."

Dubai's arrogant resident/nonresident policies have reaped the wind. Those of us who trusted our British real estate agents have been betrayed. If Dubai does recover it MUST reform its work and residence policies! The U.S. is still using Mexicans and other Hispanics to prop up American farming and business - the work that citizens abhor. Please respond.

 

[guidecca]

Notice to my developer

Jon,

There was no need to lose your temper. Opinions are like noses - "you can pick your own !". There will always be differences of opinion on any subject.

Personally, I have always thought the Dubai 'bubble' was totally unsustainable in anything other than the short term. The overwhelming majority of new 'residents' are construction workers, or service workers for the hotels, malls, shops, leisure facilities etc. who could never afford to live in the tens of thousands of new properties on offer. Apparently, there are preoblems with quality of construction (strange whiffs around the Palm ?),infrastructure is totally inadequate, and just as in Bulgaria and other 'property hotspots' peddled to the naive at so called property exhibitions, developers are taking the money and running. In itself this might actually mitigate investors' losses as there were never going to be enough tenants for these properties, so buyers would be left to pay mortgages, service charges, maintenance costs etc. with no income.

Naturally, a lot of people won't want to admit to themselves or others that they fell for the snake oil salesmen, and singularly failed to do their own research. These people will remain in denial for as long as they can, and will react angrily to anyone who dares to suggest they got it wrong.

As I posited on the Bulgarian forum, the true losses incurred by investors in these bubbles will run into billions.

I am a small investor and bought one unit in Oasis I from Brighton Holdings. I do not know who the current developer is but I have one message for them. If I lose money on this investment I will make sure they lose. There are extremists and then there are pissed off extremists. I fall into the second category and I can afford to make that a promise. Final justice-what the law and government will not do and I run out of time enforcing.

 

[guidecca]

America is getting out of the recession and Dubai is still sinking. The emergency market is singing again, but nothing happening in Dubai. The reason is the supply - too much too quick, nothing to do with the world recession and is over.

America's economy is also a "dream" that is not real. There is no recovery only a change of government from a dim-witted rich kid George W. Bush to an intelligent problem-solver President Barrack Obama. Our "democratic" government is so polarized that intelligent changes that would lower the national deficit in the long term are being obstructed by partisan politics. Don't expect the U.S. to recover unless Obama's Policies are enacted and the U.S. is OUT of the Middle East. Thank god for Chinese money to prop the U.S. up.

I believe the British were also part of the "Coalition" that unilaterally invaded Iraq. England has a long history for policing the world and building empire. When the U.S. extricates itself from the "war on terrorism" and the business of "country-building and occupying" Afghanistan prosperity may return.

 

[Peter39]

Here are the facts about the United States economy. For every dollar the federal government spends 43 cents (or percent) is borrowed and most is borrowed from China. If China stops lending to the U.S. which it will do if China determines that the U.S. is creating an unsustainable deficit (debt) the United States as you know it will collapse. A CD (certificate of deposit) which is the safest place to put your money will pay about 2 percent interest for an 18 month commitment. Investing in solar energy or in something that reduces monthly expenses is the only way I know to get a good return on investment.

My views are taken from watching CSPAN in the U.S. I hope Dubai can come back. I do not understand why they had to build the tallest building in the world. It is probably male machismo. Maybe a woman in charge of Dubai's economy would help. Women seem to know how to save money. Kind regards to all of you.

China won't stop lending to the US because the US is China's largest customer. So if China stopped lending, the US would stop buying and China would go bust.

Dubai built the Burj (tallest tower) as a statment that it could do thuings bigger and better than anyone else. You have your opinion, mine is that its fantastic!

 

[Peter39]

I am a small investor and bought one unit in Oasis I from Brighton Holdings. I do not know who the current developer is but I have one message for them. If I lose money on this investment I will make sure they lose. There are extremists and then there are pissed off extremists. I fall into the second category and I can afford to make that a promise. Final justice-what the law and government will not do and I run out of time enforcing.

Did you do any due dilligence before you invested? Did you check out the developer, their track record and their finacial stability? Did you know that there were no proper property laws in the UAE or did you just see an easy way to make a fast buck?

The problem with speculation is that when things go wrong, the speculator always blames someone else and when they go right, the speculator takes all the credit.

 

[jonwell]

Hi
i am back i was quite busy but have you heard the news about dubai begging for money.

Money it spent which it never had.

I told you all and warned you all that credit crunch 2 was coming wait till feb next year.

The dubai economy will lose another 15 - 20% next year.

See what the news says to day.

Dubai has lost a staggering 17% since i started to post here,

i am telling you now get out while you can the next 5 -7 years will be bad for dubai.

And for all those that said i sold out too cheaply back in end 2006 well i can always come back and pick 2 apartments for every one i sold.

 

[imported_MichaelTW]

I owned a apartment in International City and used it as a rental. THe promises of what IC was to be and the reality were vastly different. It is NOTHING like they said it would be, the maintainence and landscaping came to a halt and now the place is a low end slum with 95% of the tentants being renters; many apartments have 10-15 people living in them as they are cheap laborers from india. I was there earlier this year and went to IC and was just appalled! I had a good renter thank god and finally jusat sold the place. I broke even and was thankful for that. Its a nightmare trying to do anything with property there. Took me 2 trips to do all the red tape paperwork and still it was touch and go. Anyone owning an apartment in international city should think twice about it being a long term thing. The place is falling apart!

 

[SEA]

I'm simply amazed by the supply of residential property in Dubai. Dubai is a city of only about 150,000 natives and the rest are mostly poor laborers from foreign countries. Yet, you see so many of those residential skyscrapers are being built like there is no tomorrow and each unit can cost like $1 million USD. Poor foreign laborers are in Dubai to earn their low pay wages and go home, they definitely are not going to buy those properties nor do they have the fund to do so. Companies that import these foreign laborers are not going to rent those skyscrapers for them to stay either, so who would eventually buy/occupy those properties? 150,000 natives of Dubai are not enough demand for those massive supply either. The supply does not meet the demand to me.

As for Dubai and its economy, it has no manufacturing industry at all so it has to import everything. But in order to import the city must be able to export to earn foreign currency but Dubai has nothing to export. So what other ways to earn forex currency? Tourism? Who honestly would want to spend several thousand dollars to come to a desert as hot as a sun?

The only advantage Dubai has over city-states like Hong Kong and Singapura is that Dubai has a very small population of only about 150,000 so in order to maintain a high standard of living of $30,000/capita like HK or Singapura, Dubai only needs to generate a total inflow of forex currency of $4.5 billion usd. But since Dubai has no manufacturing industry, would the city be able to find other ways to earn $4.5 billion usd/year of cash inflow?

 

[Wannaberich]

I'm simply amazed by the supply of residential property in Dubai. Dubai is a city of only about 150,000 natives and the rest are mostly poor laborers from foreign countries.

1.5m population and many of the labourers have gone home.

 

[MarianL]

Yes, there are apparently around 100,000 Brits alone, let alone any other Europeans, Australasians, Americans, South Africans etc etc

 

[Brendan R]

Yes, there are apparently around 100,000 Brits alone, let alone any other Europeans, Australasians, Americans, South Africans etc etc

everywhere there is a bubble there are some Brits :biggrin:

 

[MarianL]

everywhere there is a bubble there are some Brits :biggrin:

LOL, you are right!