Saidia site report

Discussion in 'Morocco Property' started by simon b, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. simon b

    simon b New Member

    Location Report: Mid February 2008 – Saidia - Eastern Morocco

    Met with most of the main people from Fadesa, discussed most issues.

    Fadesa have really pulled their finger out, the AP Apartments have improved a lot since my last visit in December. I inspected around 30 apartments and the snagging was minimal compared to last time. The main issue being, damp damage on the lower part of the walls around the patio doors. ( Not on all floors and not in all apartments!) Fadesa understands the problem and is chipping back the damage and has treated accordingly.
    The other snagging issues are mainly, cleaning, and touch up painting. I have also made several suggestions to slightly improve the finished article.
    V1 V2 V3 Villas – V1 and V2 are complete, some clients have started furnishing and installing air con. V3 is a way off yet, but going in the right direction.

    The AP apartments are looking lovely, nice green lush gardens after the recent rains; the whole area is clean and tidy. There are around six AP6 apartments that have people living in them, A French lady, the owner of the Restaurant in the Marina and a number of other French and Spanish people. Amazing…. When you are within the apartment complexes you would not know you are on a building site.

    Other gossip…. Client’s buying on resort in % - French 20% Spanish 30% - English and others 50%

    RT1 Magnum

    RT1… Fadesa’s Daddy!!!! Wow factor ….oh yes

    Great location, large apartments, great prices, Marble floors, soft colours that match the H1 hotel, really great furniture and finished very well. The finish is excellent, due to complete in April/ May or possibly June. I snagged a few apartments on block 10 and 11 and I found very little to report. Mainly cleaning and painting in block 11 and 10, with the other blocks close behind. The least developed blocks are block 8 and 7, however, the whole Magnum site will handed over together.

    Plus points… , I think it’s a fantastic product and extra added surprise is the Magnum club house, big, flash, Moroccan, with food and beer…. and of course other services. What more will our clients want!


    RT2 – Sea and golf view apartments – Wow factor … oh yes

    Show apartment close to opening on the top floor of block 6 of RT2, huge 1 bed corner penthouse. This is an excellent product, has a really nice kitchen and white goods, soft Moroccan colour schemes, a rough look plaster finish with feature wooden walldrobe doors. Even the light switches impressed me.

    I did not realise this product would be so good, its very difficult to imagine the finish on an off plan property when you have not been involved in the design and furnishings purchasing process.

    RT7 – Going up at a rapid rate, please see photos.

    LJDF Villas – Earth moving, land clearing, promotional bill boards up

    The Greens / Fairways Wow factor……. Oh yes

    The Riad townhouse show house is also very close to opening, this has more wow factors, the dome is amazing, it really is, and makes the whole property feel Moroccan and swish, the rooms are large, the bathrooms are big even if one is a little busy. The finish is class and the other wooden features are impressive. The only minor point I could pick up on was the feel of the kitchen; I just felt a “spark” was missing to impress me. Saying that you are not paying LJDF or Magnum prices, so you get what you pay for. I would be very pleased if I had brought this Riad, the Large Riads should be beyond belief if the townhouses are anything to go by.

    Well-done Azur, for building something very different at a middle price, great product group.

    The Greens block 8 ground floor corner show apartment is close to opening as well, it has been finished and the furniture is in but not arranged. Looks great, nice finish, clean and tidy, will impress any client whom has purchased on the resort.

    The Greens apartments… going well, shaping up, the 70-sqm apartments are looking a little small at the moment, as there are no tiles down or paint on the interior walls. However, the finish for the price will make up for it! The site boundary walls have been constructed, they look great, not like Fort Knocks, and again the whole site is pushing on nicely. The whole site is on target for overall handover on the last day of 2008. The clients whom have purchased penthouse (dependant on which block) maybe pleased to hear there is a nice distant sea view on the horizon.

    TASA . wow factor …. AP1 location is good, properties ok…. Just OK !

    Show apartment within the site office will be open within the Month I would say, they are out of the ground on AP1 and TASA is starting to have a presence on site. OK product, good locations for the prices. Low on my sales list to be honest! Sorry Cristobal! ( TASA rep)

    Athenea Golf….. wow factor ……. Some great golf views Ok apartments

    Just land moving in that area at the moment.

    Oasis Golf and Beach…. Oh dear UK office in administration!!

    Unfortunately the UK office of Superior has gone in to administration, this is I suspect a bit of a worry for some clients, however, I have been advised that Oasis Golf and Beach Morocco are continuing to push on with the project. Saffron Villas detached itself from Oasis over 18 months ago.

    Nothing happening with the land or plots.


    Big boats in, bar- restaurant OPEN, Yes Open……. Owned by Dominic who lives on AP6, and run by Pedro. Both speak English, Spanish and French, food ok, prices OK, 2-course lunch consisting of a Moroccan mixed salad to start with, and the marina with soft drinks, 260 DH  - Outside eating area, very nice. There was only 1 table free when we first arrived on Friday afternoon!!!

    Steven (FORMALY of Oasis Golf and beach) is opening a large, smart, Licensed Sports bar near the Harbour masters office. Very nice, looking forward to that opening!

    Huge boat sheds are being erected on the east side of the marina and don’t look that great but this is a necessary evil. The extension of the Marina has not yet started, but basic facilities for the boats are up and running.

    Whole area looking good and moving the right direction.

    Medina / Commercial centre

    60% booked to companies and individuals, it’s going to be wonderful and there are some big names going in.

    I have met the guy who is opening the biggest bar, restaurant and nightclub. He is an ex pro boxer and has been trading in the leisure world in Boston USA for the last 15 years. The club will be for 1500 people plus a 500 people VIP area, that’s me by the way! The same guy will be opening the 10th hotel on site in EPV-3 next to the sports area.

    Shop fitting taking place.

    Car hire, banks, bars, nightclubs, general shops 2 x super markets etc etc!

    Looks good in general!

    Golf course x 3 x 18 holes

    Golf course one will be playable in around 4 weeks. Looking very good, the recent rain has helped bring it on. The other 2 golf courses are shaped and ready to be seeded and will only take between 6 and 10 weeks to be green, they have just been waiting for the right time to seed. They are also flat out working on the Clubhouse number 1 (next door to H1).

    General Infrastructure

    New and also improved roads, new roundabouts, pathways and planting, the resort has a feel of a “ race against time”.

    The roads coming over the hills at the back of the resort have been worked on and it looks like it will not be long before the new routes in and out of the resort will be open.

    The walkway on the beachfront is complete, and they have added additional Moroccan features to this area in the form of water pools, fountains and seating areas. I understand that the King of Morocco, after his last visit requested that resort looks more Moroccan. Well-done King!

    Old Town Saidia

    Chaos….! Road works, building works, new lighting, big holes everywhere, roads blocked off. A busy town even for February, the Hotel Atlal was full every night, the bar and nightclub was busy in the evenings.

    TVA / IVA / VAT – Tax at the end of the day!

    Saffron Villas wrote to the King of Morocco and various MPs and other Moroccan authorities, referring to some scare mongering, regarding VAT on off plan property in Morocco. Our letter was received and acknowledged, read and discussed in Parliament.

    The situation is still unknown, after our letter to the King it has gone very quite.
    However, we have had communication from one of our extremely informed and reliable developers in Morocco. This has indicated that if you have reserved a property before the 01.01.2008 you will only pay the standard rate of TVA, which is 14% (and is included in most developers prices) this is under the condition that your developer has registered your name with the local tax office by the end of February. We here at Saffron Villas pre-empted this back in January and have all ready submitted our client list to the investment minister in Oujda, and has also sent copies to our developers. As soon as we have any confirmation we will inform all of out clients.


    Gossip, well Thomson’s and Royal Air Moroc seam to be the front-runners, starting with a weekly service into Oujda from London, we are still waiting to hear the finer details. I have emailed the MD of Royal Air Moroc with my suggestions.

    Client’s reaction

    Mr Steve S

    Steve has a magnum and an RT7 LJDF apartment – He was really pleased with the resort and he is thinking about up grading his apartment to RT6 or purchasing a 3rd, as he was so impressed.

    This has really been the case with all clients visiting Saidia, even back as early as mid 2005!!


    Loads of WOW factors, the resort is shaping up nicely, and the general build quality is good, a few snagging issues with Fadesa but these have been reviewed. I am getting very exited as the fields and sand dunes that I visited back in early 2005 are turning into a very luxurious and spacious resort. The hotels are tasteful and are gushing with Moroccan flavour and feel.

  2. Mr Goodliving

    Mr Goodliving New Member

    I am afraid this report is a tad out of date (approx 2 months). Please get your information correct before posting it out, so late.

    I was there for a visit last week and I can tell you that the only real construction on the site was by Jardin de Fleur on RT7 only and on Oasis RT5. It seems like all the other areas of the project had been deserted for some reason. I spoke to a few “locals” and people on the site and they told me that there should be more than 1200 workers at the moment. The entry book in the Fadesa office showed barely over 100 on the days I was there.

    I am also surprised at the comments on the Fadesa building being called “lovely”, the finishes by Fadesa can only be said to be mediocre at best. It is true that the gardens are lush but only compared to the disappointing block style buildings on the AP sites and all the same in essences AP2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc… and let’s not even talk about the army blocks villas V1, 2 and 3!!! They really missed a chance at creating something a little special. Some of the hotels on the site show the potential of the great location.

    The communal parts of the site do have a great feel to them, the marina and commercial will undoubtedly look great but it still will take sometime before it is up to standard for me to get seriously excited. The golf is lush, but needs more trees to make it interesting.

    Overall the potential is undoubtedly there; if anyone like me has purchased on the site and was thinking that it may have been a mistake after all the delays with all the developers, well think again. There is a definite 100% future here, but it will just take 1 more year I believe to really get going. Hang in there and see you for cocktails in the VIP room.

    see the following for latest pictures

    lejardindefleur and oasismorocco
  3. taureanjohn

    taureanjohn New Member

    Hi ,
    I think Richard was wearing rose tinted glasses that day . Or spent too long in the VIP lounge! There are serious issues with regard to the specs in RT1(Magnum). The kitchen is identical to the one used in the APs- porous worktop and all. Apparently Fadesa even rated the kitchens available in Mobilia as too expensive! And this is meant to be their showpiece development with the highest specification. And then the base of all my internal walls was damp / mouldy. So bad that the plaster will need to be hacked out. The spiral staircase was so rusty as to be beyond repair. And the tiling on the solarium was simply atrocious. Aziz- in charge of snagging at the time- concurred with all this and agreed to the remedial works. Only to be overruled by Farid. So now we have a new Management team . I had a positive response to an email I sent almost a month ago- then nothing. This was an apart-hotel. Now we learn that -despite the promise of guaranteed rental-no contract was entered into with Barcelo or anyone else! And that Addoha might now try to change the classification to residential!
  4. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Mr Goodliving

    I wondered if you could expand upon your thoughts on the golf. You say its 'lush' which is encouraging given others are bemoaning the golf shown in the seegales website.

    The images shown on LJDF do not show attractive golf piccies. Everything looks a bit dusty and bleak with no planting in evidence.
  5. Isadora

    Isadora New Member

    This problem also occurred in a Fadesa development in Guadalmina,Spain. All lower floor apartments suffered during the first winter and owners returned to find smelly, damp, mouldy walls in their apartments. from ground level to about 18 inches. Fadesa had to hack out the walls and put in a proper damp proof course and, of course, all walls needed re decoration. I can't believe that they didn't learn a lesson from this. There was a lot of very angry investors.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2008
  6. howellmr

    howellmr New Member

    Simon B.
    Thank you for taking the time to share your visit. It was very interesting not only hear your view on the Fairways Townhomes (I have purchased one) but also the whole resort in general.
    I have not visited the site yet therefore was missing the perspective you have provided.
    I plan to visit in July and will share my thoughts in this thread.
    Please keep the information coming as you find out more.
  7. Steve C

    Steve C New Member

    Investy, like you I've been very concerned about the aesthetics of the golf course, however I feel a lot better having seen the latest photos on the 'eyeonworld' site. It is starting to look much better now! :)
    Unfortunately Sergales didn't do themselves any favors by erroneously posting up the course as finished a few weeks back.
    The chap that posted the photos, also posted a pretty useful up to date report on the site too.
  8. fkdev

    fkdev New Member

    Hi all,
    I am at Saïdia Med 3-4 days a week. A lot of work has been done but not as much as it is stated in the report. The commercial center and Hotels may not open this summer(80% will not). Next week the construction and the work will restart.
    I am here most of the time so any requests, questions or favour, welcome anytime.
  9. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Fkdev, thanks for the offer of info.

    For me the most valuable thing you could supply would be progress photos. None of the EAs keep thier photos regularly up to date and the same applies to the developers. LJDF do update about once every 6 weeks but they miss out so much, for example on Azure Developments website are some really good golf photos however they are tiny!

    On this subject I am dissapointed with Property Showrooms. They made much of thier photo update section yet have failed to update the Saidia section since June 2007. This is typical of the careless attitude of these agents once they've sold a development and moved on to the next big thing. Yet another piece of evidence that undermines the integrity of these agents.
  10. just-alex

    just-alex New Member

    site report

    I would just like to say that this forum is in danger of losing its credibility!!

    Reports written by agents are bound to be biased as are most of their websites! Saffron Villas should know better than to try and use this site to better their own interests..the people who write here are in the main very knowledgable investors which is the reason I wished to participate,share and learn. I am interested in sharing genuine information not agent publicity.
    There has been and may still be, a lengthy strike at the Fadesa site with hardly any work taking place for months. There has been a lot of anxiety over the financial situation of the company,who are not yet completely out of the woods, and if it were not for this site then clients would have been completely in the dark as neither Fadesa. Addoha nor in particular the Moroccan press publish anything unless it is giving them a pat on the back.....which now seems to be the case for agents too!

    I would like to say thank you to all the genuine publishers of regular good information and shame on the rest!!
  11. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Pictures are a little better on eyeonworldwide, but greens still don’t look great. Hopefully it’s just a case of grass needing more time to set properly and we’ll see a much better looking course when it opens in 3 or 4 weeks time.

    Investy. I walked over the land the course is built on. It’s flat. The course will have some slight inclines here and there, but that’ll be all. It’s the water features that will make it interesting.
  12. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Soup, flat is ok with me. Is'nt St Andrews pretty flat? Certainly seen some flatties in my time.

    Planting and water features have the potential to make a flat course very asthetically appealing. Bit like new home gardens which can look pretty bleak without trees and shrubs.
  13. howellmr

    howellmr New Member

    Soup Dragon, I've been looking at eyesonworldwide but the pictures I have seen are from jan 2007 latest. Are there more recent pictures? Is so under which development are they listed?
  14. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Howell - ignore the dates, they're all messed up. The most recent piccies are at the top of the list. Well worth a look.
  15. Lee Filkins

    Lee Filkins Administrator Staff Member Premium Member


    Just alex: I agree with you. Sadly the Agents are the ones who draws the rosy pictures. When some one like me post the down side of things to balance the argument (there is no perfect investment like there is no perfect man/woman) The response I get is why am I so negative and have a personal agenda etc, etc.

    The agents misuse their position. I do not blame them as it is their job to sell. Investors, seasonsend or not need to step back and think about the whole thing through and its not always possible to get the right advise or who to turn too.
  16. Mr Ri

    Mr Ri New Member

    Can we really blame the agents for trying to sell their product?
    You have to expect an agent to play on the upside and ignore the downside, and look to treat information supplied by agents with this perspective.

    Personally I think see the information supplied by agents on this forum as a useful perspective (in the full knowledge its the positive stuff only).

    Then take a reality check from the investing posters (particularly those that have kissed an investment frog rather than a prince).

    Many investors on this forum will have benefitted from the hype generated from these agents positive messages. Its the hype that creates the demand that helps us realize our returns.

    So for this, thanks agents, keep it up.
  17. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Investy. St Andrews has several courses. There are some holes on the famous Old Course that are flat - though perhaps undulating with hidden bunkers would be a more apt description. Placement of your drive is key (you really don't want to be in those bunkers.) There's certainly some holes where there is a fair bit of elevation, like the famous Road Hole (17.) From memory the white tee is elevated with perhaps 100 to 150 yards before the fairway. Professionals cut out a dog leg and drive over a factory on this hole - I'm sure you'll know the one.

    I'm just hoping that water help 'break up' the Championship course at Saidia. Courses where you feel you are just going up and down don't cut it and that course is hemmed in on all sides (fits into rectangular plot.) The course needs to be challenging. That means water traps, good bunkers, heavy rought, hard to read greens etc.
  18. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    From my perspective us investors are realists, and pretty pessimistic as we have a lot at stake in a far off place, so only natural to get a bit negative.

    I agree the agents give a rosy picture, but this does balance our own negativity and I welcome it to be honest!

    One thing we must all be mindful of is that no matter what property you buy there are often snaggs and dissapointments. Near me some very expensive executive town homes were built by a high profile, high end builder. The local papers had many stories documenting all sorts of snaggs, from leaking skylights, cracks to mould.
  19. Lee Filkins

    Lee Filkins Administrator Staff Member Premium Member


    "One thing we must all be mindful of is that no matter what property you buy there are often snaggs and dissapointments. Near me some very expensive executive town homes were built by a high profile, high end builder. The local papers had many stories documenting all sorts of snaggs, from leaking skylights, cracks to mould."

    I, expect these things to happen whether you are buying a flat in a block or an individual property, but within reasons. A Spanish company who were building in Saidia had built a block of flats in Marbella, where the ceiling were so badly plastered that it had waves in it. Despite all the efforts by the owners the developers never fixed it.

    I expect the developers to at least aesthetically finish the property to a high standard first and than any other issues are finished efficiently and promptly without the buyers becoming a long distance works manager. These kind of builders will have repeat business.
  20. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    With regard to LJDF, many of us are in touch with one another and from what I can tell we seem quite a hard nosed bunch, not easily fobbed - off. I suspect this could be a useful bargaining chip when it comes to snagging and the subsequent handover of completion monies.

    This is one of the reasons I went for a large project as opposed to a one - off smallish development is Ashilla or similar where you are pretty much on your own at the mercy of a devloper with no redress to an overall project facilitator like Adoha.

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