New Property Tax Law

[CMChris]

Not that stupid

One disreputable company has muted this, they may well want to collect a supposed tax on your behalf and keep it.

Let's stick to the facts as we know it and not summise.

The stories I have read so far suggest that the tax office doesn't know it's @rse from it's elbow & the Government has still not decided the finer points of the tax law.

This confusion is just what Egyptian developers love so that they can scam some more money out of us.

Unless sometime in the future you get a tax bill, with your name on it, do not part with any money to any third parties.

I don't think that many of us are stupid enough to randomly hand over money to a developer now. If there is a tax bill to pay the Tax people have enough information to contact us themselves. Yes, Hurghada tax office is a mess but,like everything in Egypt I'm sure that something will eventually come of all those forms (sadly)

 

[lewroll]

Hi there,

Just wanted some feedback really - my Egyptian lawyer has asked me for £100 to deal with this matter for me - am I being taken for a mug?:stupid:
I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[danny]

Hi there,

Just wanted some feedback really - my Egyptian lawyer has asked me for £100 to deal with this matter for me - am I being taken for a mug?:stupid:
I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES

you can download an English version of the forms yourself and send them by airmail.
(when filling the forms out make sure that any numbers or dates are written from Right to Left)

The form would take someone about 10 minutes to fill out the rest of the time would be spent in a queue which your lawyer would probably pay a gofer to do.

You can fill in and send the forms yourself by registered airmail to:


Office of Real Estate Tax Authority head
Real Estate Tax Authority
15 Mansour Street, Lazoughly, Cairo, Egypt

PDF download of official English version link below:

Welcome to Ministry of Finance Portal - The Real Estate Tax Declaration Form in English (For Foreigners)

An interesting article published on the 7th March 2010 regarding the proposed new tax on the link below
(The delay mentioned in this article may well be in reference to the date for tax form submission being altered from December to March)

IMF: Egyptian real estate tax delayed for political reasons - Cityscape Intelligence

 

[sanddune]

Excellent and interesting post Danny
Many thanks

 

[danny]

Excellent and interesting post Danny
Many thanks

Thanks,

I am going out next week to hand deliver my tax forms into the Hurghada office.

I will get my local friendly shop keeper to fill them in and give him a backsheesh for his troubles, worth 100le of anyones money.

 

[lewroll]

Many thanks for your help Danny.

Can't believe that my lawyer asked me for £100 to do this for me - just shows that you shouldn't always rely on your judgement of people!

Also shows you what a great thing the internet is.

Thanks once again!:shakehands:

 

[danny]

Many thanks for your help Danny.

Can't believe that my lawyer asked me for £100 to do this for me - just shows that you shouldn't always rely on your judgement of people!

Also shows you what a great thing the internet is.

Thanks once again!:shakehands:

Welcome to Egypt, you'll soon learn the ropes.

 

[ERG Experts]

YES

you can download an English version of the forms yourself and send them by airmail.
(when filling the forms out make sure that any numbers or dates are written from Right to Left)

The form would take someone about 10 minutes to fill out the rest of the time would be spent in a queue which your lawyer would probably pay a gofer to do.

You can fill in and send the forms yourself by registered airmail to:


Office of Real Estate Tax Authority head
Real Estate Tax Authority
15 Mansour Street, Lazoughly, Cairo, Egypt

PDF download of official English version link below:

Welcome to Ministry of Finance Portal - The Real Estate Tax Declaration Form in English (For Foreigners)

An interesting article published on the 7th March 2010 regarding the proposed new tax on the link below
(The delay mentioned in this article may well be in reference to the date for tax form submission being altered from December to March)

IMF: Egyptian real estate tax delayed for political reasons - Cityscape Intelligence

Hi Danny,

Be careful with the writing of numbers from right-to-left. I am not quite sure what you mean by it exactly, but if you mean to write "thirteen" as 31 for example, then this is totally wrong and will be misinterpreted by the tax office.

Although the written Arabic is written right-to-left, numbers still have place value, and still must be written in the same way we would in English.

For dates, you are right that they are written backwards, as in YYYY / MM / DD, but again the values should be written forwards, so today's date would be written in the form 2010 / 03 / 15.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but I wanted to be clear to avoid anybody filling in the forms themselves to make a mistake.

ERG

 

[ERG Experts]

Hi there,

Just wanted some feedback really - my Egyptian lawyer has asked me for £100 to deal with this matter for me - am I being taken for a mug?:stupid:
I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Lewroll,

Don't feel you are being taken for a mug.

At the end of the day if your lawyer is providing you with a service, which in this case is filling out a form, so it is normal for him to ask to be paid for his time. Other companies and/or lawyers who are advertising to do this service on behalf of clients are asking for a similar amount.

However, some lawyers are doing it for their existent clients for free as a gesture of goodwill. Other property owners have had their forms completed and submitted by their developers, also FOC as a service from them as developers.

Moreover, as Danny has rightly stated, the form has now been released in English and therefore can be completed by you without any assistance and submitted, if not by you then maybe a friend out here on your behalf if you prefer it hand-delivered.

If your lawyer had not given you the options available to you then he sounds like he is just trying to get whatever money he can out of you, in which case if you have the need to use a lawyer in the future you may wish to reconsider who you use.

 

[danny]

Hi Danny,

Be careful with the writing of numbers from right-to-left. I am not quite sure what you mean by it exactly, but if you mean to write "thirteen" as 31 for example, then this is totally wrong and will be misinterpreted by the tax office.

Although the written Arabic is written right-to-left, numbers still have place value, and still must be written in the same way we would in English.

For dates, you are right that they are written backwards, as in YYYY / MM / DD, but again the values should be written forwards, so today's date would be written in the form 2010 / 03 / 15.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but I wanted to be clear to avoid anybody filling in the forms themselves to make a mistake.

ERG

Thanks for that advice it will certainly make it easier for all of us to fill in the forms ourselves if we should so wish.

At least between us we have offered an alternate solution that saves everyone money.

I still feel that £100 charges by Egyptian lawyers is extortionate given the average wage in Egypt and the low cost of living.

At 10 minutes a form that would be £600 an hour then the rest of the month off.

They are providing a service that a beggar on the street could perform for the price of a Macdonalds.

If anyone wants to send their forms for me to fill in at £50 a pop I'll stand in the queue all day long.

 

[lewroll]

Hi Lewroll,

Don't feel you are being taken for a mug.

At the end of the day if your lawyer is providing you with a service, which in this case is filling out a form, so it is normal for him to ask to be paid for his time. Other companies and/or lawyers who are advertising to do this service on behalf of clients are asking for a similar amount.

However, some lawyers are doing it for their existent clients for free as a gesture of goodwill. Other property owners have had their forms completed and submitted by their developers, also FOC as a service from them as developers.

Moreover, as Danny has rightly stated, the form has now been released in English and therefore can be completed by you without any assistance and submitted, if not by you then maybe a friend out here on your behalf if you prefer it hand-delivered.

If your lawyer had not given you the options available to you then he sounds like he is just trying to get whatever money he can out of you, in which case if you have the need to use a lawyer in the future you may wish to reconsider who you use.

I understand what you are saying but I have to tell you that this lawyer is still doing my papers and getting paid handsomely for that.

Sadly, I think that he thinks I am just a soft touch otherwise he would have a) told me about this law himself (which I only learnt about on this forum) and b) filled this form in for me without asking for £100 extra.

If he had asked for a nominal 100 LE I would have been slightly miffed but would have understood that he has a family to feed and paid him. As it is, if I could change lawyers without hassle I would do so. I certainly will not use him again (should the need arise) and would not recommend him to anyone else even though I have no reason to believe he is not doing a good job for me.

Thanks once again everyone for your help. Much appreciated and keep up the good work!

 

[danny]

Thanks,

I am going out next week to hand deliver my tax forms into the Hurghada office.

I will get my local friendly shop keeper to fill them in and give him a backsheesh for his troubles, worth 100le of anyones money.

Filled in the forms myself in the end, not difficult.

Went to submit the forms on Wednesday.

The office is located on Administration street (clues are in the name)which is in Dahar at the side of the Government shop and fruit and veg market.


800 mteres down on the right hand side you will see a white single story building which is called the Labour Building/Exchange.

Directly behind this, virtually adjoining, are two 4 storey buildings.

In the scond of these, on the first floor and to your left is the office where you submit your forms together with a photocopy of your contract from your developer and a photocopy of your passport.


On the ground floor, and to your left again, your reciept to acknowledge you have submitted your paperwork is stamped.

The process took 10 minutes and at the cost to me of the paper that I printed the forms on to.

 

[Mussa1]

Do you know the opening hours for the office? Also is this the office for registering your property also?

Filled in the forms myself in the end, not difficult.

Went to submit the forms on Wednesday.

The office is located on Administration street (clues are in the name)which is in Dahar at the side of the Government shop and fruit and veg market.


800 mteres down on the right hand side you will see a white single story building which is called the Labour Building/Exchange.

Directly behind this, virtually adjoining, are two 4 storey buildings.

In the scond of these, on the first floor and to your left is the office where you submit your forms together with a photocopy of your contract from your developer and a photocopy of your passport.


On the ground floor, and to your left again, your reciept to acknowledge you have submitted your paperwork is stamped.

The process took 10 minutes and at the cost to me of the paper that I printed the forms on to.

 

[danny]

Do you know the opening hours for the office? Also is this the office for registering your property also?

All I know is that the office was open at 10.30 am when I arrived and I would imagine it would be closed on Fridays.

I do not know what other services it provides.

 

[John111]

We have read on some forums that some resort management have asked the owners for government tax for previous years and produced bills for this. On Naama Bay View Resort we are now being asked for this tax. There seem to be some sort of official bills from the taxation department in Arabic. Our manager has explained that this taxation is for 2009 and first 3 months of 2010 and is payable now and it is around 700LE for our apartment.He assures us that it has nothing to do with the resort management.
This tax does not seem to be related to the new property taxation form we have filled in and the subsequent taxation to be decided. Has anyone paid such a tax or have any information the validity of this tax?

 

[Alan Cockayne]

Tax or scam

On Naama Bay View Resort we are now being asked for this 2009 tax. There seem to be some sort of official bills from the taxation department in Arabic.

For those owners who hired their own lawyer, I suggest they check the Arabic bills and give you clear advice on their content.

Our manager has explained that this taxation is for 2009 and first 3 months of 2010 and is payable now and it is around 700LE for our apartment.He assures us that it has nothing to do with the resort management.

Then it is the Property tax levied on homes 500,000Le and over. Management fees would be reduced accordingly as stated in official documents.

This tax does not seem to be related to the new property taxation form we have filled in and the subsequent taxation to be decided. Has anyone paid such a tax or have any information the validity of this tax?

Then it could be the tax invoices handed to previous owners (practical partners who completed the build, part paid, sold for profit and never registered their names as owners) prior to handing over validity to you.

In which case it would be a scam to avoid income tax. That is called profiteering. One of the "grey areas" surrounding Signiture Validity.

If projects have had proper government valuations recently, then those who registered and are above the threshold will be liable for tax in due course. Those owners having completed signiture validity and who haven't completed a tax form will get a reminder or face a fine.

However, I am very sceptical about who takes these taxes and imposes fines as there seem to be little jurisdiction or permits for such officials at present.
My advice would be to sit tight and wait for an official Government Statement.

Alan. Coralife-Style Consultants.

 

[Georgina]

Villa owners in El Gouna have either seen the tax inspectors measuring up or have had them call on their villa and measure up saying they will be notified shortly which tax band they fall into.

 

[Alan Cockayne]

Tax scams

Villa owners in El Gouna have either seen the tax inspectors measuring up or have had them call on their villa and measure up saying they will be notified shortly which tax band they fall into.

I reported that the property tax legislation did not get written into law and if anyone gets a tax bill they may be scams to get money from owners by deception.

Of course gullible owners will pay, leading to more extortionate scams. Under the present crisis and lack of tourism income and sales, some management companies will try any desperate measure to obtain money by any means possible.


Alan.

 

[Georgina]

I reported that the property tax legislation did not get written into law and if anyone gets a tax bill they may be scams to get money from owners by deception.

Of course gullible owners will pay, leading to more extortionate scams. Under the present crisis and lack of tourism income and sales, some management companies will try any desperate measure to obtain money by any means possible.


Alan.

They have been coming round since the end of last year. Friends say they have then been advised which tax band but not asked for any money. It would be good if we can get a copy of their official I.D.

 

[Alan Cockayne]

Tax scams.

They have been coming round since the end of last year. Friends say they have then been advised which tax band but not asked for any money. It would be good if we can get a copy of their official I.D.

As El Gouna Estates wants to do everything by the book; inspections for tax-banding was part of the process. However, when unscrupulous managers see an opening, I'm warning owners not to fall for paying anything at this moment in time.

It will likely be part of a new administration remit to reform tax laws. But as there are no decision makers in this transitional government, everything is stalled right now. Demands for payments therefore are most likely opportunists taking advantage of the dire situation that some developments find themselves in.

Alan.