Seeking Advice: Buy/Invest in Rio de Janeiro

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by Raimundo, Feb 3, 2008.

  1. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    No, I didn't say that. I said that I know of several developments in the best neighbourhoods of Natal where you can buy apartments (I meant 2 bed, you just assumed I was talking 3 bed) for 200.000 R$. I also said that if you are looking to spend 390.000 R$ then you can get a luxury apartment in the best neighbourhoods of Natal. And the 2 bedroom apartments for 200.000 R$ you'll get the normal facilities (pool, barbecue area, underground parking, 24 hour security and maintenance) as you would in any development. The ones I'm thinking of are in the best possible location you can get in my opinion (both for surroundings and for capital appreciation outlook). And of standard or above average fittings.
     
  2. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Actually, 200.000 BRL is about 63.000 GBP at todays exchange rate.

    On that site you linked, Dotty there are no apartments for sale in Maidstone for GBP 70.000 or less except ones on a fractional ownership basis - so you are only actually buying between 25% and 50% of the property. There are none waterside.

    There are no 2 bedroom properties in Canterbury for 70.000 GBP or less - not even on fractional ownership. None in Sussex within that price range.

    There are some in Gloucestershire. Now while Gloucestershire may well be a fantastic place to live, it's not London so you can't compare it to the prices of Rio de Janeiro. I don't know what you'd compare Gloucestershire to in Brazil, but not Rio or Sao Paulo, certainly.

    Maybe you were using another website.
     
  3. timatthebeach

    timatthebeach New Member

    just an observation - i live between hastings and southern brazil. hastings is one of the lowest housing markets in south east and you cant get a 2 bed here for less than 80 k and then they are ropey, second room is tiny box or smashed up repos. and you certainly cant get a 2bed for 70 k in maidstone or canterbury (except again for maybe, a very big maybe, a really rundown repo).

    there are now some bargains to be had here (all over country) but you have to know the area to make sure youre buying in a good area and know local market as here (and i assume same all over) there are huge differences in prices for similiar flats/houses. with people really needing to sell actually taking sensible prices. it is the widest margins i have ever seen here for comparable properties.

    BUT it is still very very hard to get good rates on a mortgage without having 50% of the price yourself. and i have found that commercial loans are now the cheapest rates about - which certainly never used to be the way. with many specialist lenders (like paragon, chl , and mortgage express) all in severe trouble and no longer lending.

    personally i think prices here will continue to fall and what we are seeing is merely the summer feel good seasonal sales increase coupled with a slight easing of lending and some positive stories in the media. but generally it is still way too hard and expensive to get mortgages right now.
     
  4. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    The 2 beds are valued at 290 Reais ,so 100K will indeed buy a decent 2 bed in the UK which 2 yrs ago would have been much more !An even better bargain is when you purchase at auction.I have been researching for the best part of a yr now and have been watching the prices come down a fair bit.

    =timatthebeach;104069]just an observation - i live between hastings and southern brazil. hastings is one of the lowest housing markets in south east and you cant get a 2 bed here for less than 80 k and then they are ropey, second room is tiny box or smashed up repos. and you certainly cant get a 2bed for 70 k in maidstone or canterbury (except again for maybe, a very big maybe, a really rundown repo).

    there are now some bargains to be had here (all over country) but you have to know the area to make sure youre buying in a good area and know local market as here (and i assume same all over) there are huge differences in prices for similiar flats/houses. with people really needing to sell actually taking sensible prices. it is the widest margins i have ever seen here for comparable properties.

    BUT it is still very very hard to get good rates on a mortgage without having 50% of the price yourself. and i have found that commercial loans are now the cheapest rates about - which certainly never used to be the way. with many specialist lenders (like paragon, chl , and mortgage express) all in severe trouble and no longer lending.

    personally i think prices here will continue to fall and what we are seeing is merely the summer feel good seasonal sales increase coupled with a slight easing of lending and some positive stories in the media. but generally it is still way too hard and expensive to get mortgages right now.[/QUOTE]
     
  5. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    So Tim,

    Prices will continue to fall,people are finding it difficult to purchase,yet it's harder to gain access to money,repossessions are hugh,people need to offload excess properties,yet youcan't buy nice 2 beds for 100K?? There are wonderful 2beds in the UK for that price.
     
  6. dhoskings

    dhoskings New Member

    I find it amazing you won't shut people up who are calling you a nutter by showing some examples of what you are looking at buying ... or maybe it is because these flats only exist in your mind???
     
  7. timatthebeach

    timatthebeach New Member

    I dont believe i said you cant buy a 2bed in u.k. for 100k - that is alot higher than 70k which was the figure being talked about in the earlier posts. but then again i could have bought a reasonable (not fantastic and in need of refurb and little tlc) 2 bed for 100k here in hastings a year or so ago.
    not looking for an argument merely commenting on earlier posts and the particular areas i know. but as it happens toady 290,000 R$ will get you £91,910. definitely enough to buy a fairly decent 2 bed here in hastings but not a massive amount of cash still for most of the market in the south east. and even here a really nice 2 bed would set you back about 90k -100k.
    whilst there are bargains to be had at auction it is not for everyone due to the need to put down an instant cash or bankers draft deposit of 10% on the day and to complete within 28 days.

    p.s. if you read my post i actually agree with you dotty that prices are going to fall more here. i just dont agree that you can buy great 2 beds for 70k in the south east.
     
  8. DGM42

    DGM42 New Member

    Yes so you say but cannot give exact examples only hot air of what you say is around and never any proof.

    You get a lovely place in Rio for $R200,000 right next to the favela by copacabana
     
  9. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Tim the initial amount OF 290,000 reais was mentioned by me because I said you can purchase a great 2 bed in the UK for the same value in sterling aprox 100k depending what day it happens to be- when suddenly it got mixed in a bowl of porridge and somehow it went down to 200,000 reais! Well you can buy a mobile home for that or possibly a lovely studio ,so I am right inmentioning you can buy a lovely flat for 100k.
    Has anybody been to Rio lately...just another question.....????;);)
     
  10. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    DGM42,

    Check out the UK homepages as they will give you a better guide to the UK property market .

    Happy viewing!! :DQUOTE=DGM42;104090]Yes so you say but cannot give exact examples only hot air of what you say is around and never any proof.

    You get a lovely place in Rio for $R200,000 right next to the favela by copacabana[/QUOTE]
     
  11. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Initially you mentioned the figure of R$ 390.000 as being what you'd need if you want to buy a nice property in Natal - and that you could get a great bargain in the UK for the same amount. Then you said that this leads you to the belief that Real Estate in Brazil is more expensive than in the UK.

    I said you don't need R$ 390.000 to buy a property in Natal unless you are looking at top end luxury - and in that case you'll have a very hard time finding a top luxury property in the UK for the same price. To prove that the UK is cheaper than Brazil (your initial statement) then you'd need to show us a property in the UK for sale in an excellent neighbourhood for under R$ 200.000 which is what a normal apartment costs in an excellent neighbourhood in Natal.

    So, while you may be able to buy a property in the UK for 124.000 GBP, (390.000 R$) the type of house you will be able to buy won't compare to the kind of property you can buy in Natal for the same amount of money.

    No, not been to Rio lately but planning on a visit soon.
     
  12. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    That would depend of the client's choice of property. How big is a property at 390,000 (about 110 mtrs ).How big is property for 200,000 approx 54 mtrs.That's tiny and they are basic. What high quality buildings do you know of at 390,000 that are luxury?My idea of lux(if I could afford them go for 900,000 ate 1,7.million reais.As you are aware only the elite buy these,but for the average citizen in the UK and in Brasil you can happily purchase a decent home for 100k in the UK .

    I am puzzled with this lux 200,000 prop in Natal .Where can you buy these lux properties in excellent neighbourhoods? Having an invested interest in the markets for a number of yrs I am yet to pull out of the bag a lux 200,000 property in Natal.There are several highly decorated showflats ,but the rest .................

    Now , let's focus on the Rio Property market.:):)

     
  13. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Quick note.Take a peek at the UK Property forum on TP.
     
  14. DGM42

    DGM42 New Member

    [/QUOTE]

    Dotty I live in the UK about 30 minutes drive from Maidstone actually.
    I also have invested in UK property buying at auctions, repossessions etc and I know I have a far better knowledge than you as I have done it and give 100% clear examples instead of the hot air you spout from the wrong end.

    How do you think i can afford to fly to Brazil at least 6 times per year (in a bad year) and see my noiva. She also comes to the UK around 3 times per year.

    I am looking to invest in Brazil property but in the south, Rio, Buzios, BH.
    I already trade betweeen Uk and Brazil with various niche products and am in negiations in buying a pousada in Buzios.
    I think I know more about the UK market than you. Your knowledge is from reading out of a paper.

    As I said you play devils advocate and like to mix people up but constantly get caught out by your lack of knowledge.
    Incidentally i haven't seen anyone yet in the UK that is giving a land rover away with there property purchase, but I am sure you will know someone - maybe north yorkshire :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  15. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Well if you do all you say you do then you are aware of the prices in the UK.You don"t need to live in the UK to understand prices are about 35% cheaper in many areas and the price of rentals have come down 25%. If you buy at auctions you will know only too well how great the market is.There are thousands of fab properties being off loaded .You DO NOT need to live in the UK to work that out.

    If you plan on investing in the South of Brasil,quite a long way from Europe you will find your market to be Brasilian dominated, do your research very thoroughly as it's not as explored as the N.E. Now what magical properties are in Rio for 200,000 reais or 1.5 mil. Give the forum some info..................



    QUOTE=DGM42;104109][/QUOTE]

    Dotty I live in the UK about 30 minutes drive from Maidstone actually.
    I also have invested in UK property buying at auctions, repossessions etc and I know I have a far better knowledge than you as I have done it and give 100% clear examples instead of the hot air you spout from the wrong end.

    How do you think i can afford to fly to Brazil at least 6 times per year (in a bad year) and see my noiva. She also comes to the UK around 3 times per year.

    I am looking to invest in Brazil property but in the south, Rio, Buzios, BH.
    I already trade betweeen Uk and Brazil with various niche products and am in negiations in buying a pousada in Buzios.
    I think I know more about the UK market than you. Your knowledge is from reading out of a paper.

    As I said you play devils advocate and like to mix people up but constantly get caught out by your lack of knowledge.
    Incidentally i haven't seen anyone yet in the UK that is giving a land rover away with there property purchase, but I am sure you will know someone - maybe north yorkshire :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
     
  16. DGM42

    DGM42 New Member

     
  17. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    DG,

    How can you judge the NE if you've never been there??!I have travelled all around Brasil for over the past 15 yrs and have not yet met a bunch of English lager louts!!Yes,they like a tipple at the weekend ,but so do Brasilians,infact Brasilians guzzle more beer at a Barbeque than a hotel full of British of lager louts do( over a weekend bender as they say!!)

    I think John's enjoying himself here and he's not a lager lout are you John??My other friend's are respectable nice people .I am teetotal and a non-smoker(hehe).

    Come and visit us in sunny Natal and we'll show you that there are decent people here.
    Robh sometimes stays in Pipa Paradise and I'm sure he's not a lager lout.Dave Hoskings has been to Natal(I'm sure he doesn't drink or smoke!)

    Drop the stereotype and losen up.You're in brasil.........................

    You have strange ideas QUOTE=DGM42;104163]
     
  18. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    No hehe I wouldn't quite call myself a lager lout... I've met quite a lot of expats out in Natal now and I'd probably classify three as lager louts... and one of those are Brazilian.

    Brazil is a very health oriented country. When I lived in Portugal and Spain I didn't exercise much, I'd wake up normally about 20 minutes before going to work and smoked about 40 cigs a day.

    Here I wake up at 6 - go to the gym from 6 to 7, then either play squash or sit on my balcony drinking a freshly squeezed fruit juice reading emails and checking the various forums I participate in. I'm normally at work by 8 and on the weekends I tend to travel around a bit and spend a lot of time on the beach. And I've given up smoking (apart from weekend parties - after a caipirinha I tend to light up...)
     
  19. DGM42

    DGM42 New Member

    If you actually read the post the line says I have not been to the north YET. :p
    I have not judged the north, I have heard good things about it actually.
    But am I not allowed to make wild exaggerations like you without any facts.

    The furthest north (from Rio) I have been so far is Macieo, and I will venture my way up to Natal soon. As my fiancee lives in BH there is so much to see in the south.

    Yes it was a general comment but sadly true, I do not want Brazil to get the lager louts like Spain, but the amount of building going on is very like Spain in the 70's and if a close check is not kept it will end up like it.
    That said most lager lout brits do not want a 12 hour flight to Rio so I am glad the only brits I have met are the normal ones. But the big difference is when the brits are drunk they tend to want to smash the place up, I have never seen drunk brazilians do this.

    I love Brazil and fully intend to move over here in about 5 years and have not yet decided where we will settle, who knows it maybe the north. It is a huge country and I want to see as much of it as I can.
     
  20. timatthebeach

    timatthebeach New Member

    dotty of course you can buy a pretty decent flat in u.k. for 91k depending on where in country dont think it would have been a problem 2 years ago either. BUT in the south east it would still be a very very good deal to get a top notch 2 bed for 91k. (anywhere outside hastings and the medway towns that is - and even there a really good 2 bed in good area is going to be over 90k)

    auctions are great but pretty restrictive for many buyers.

    in the places i know in brazil - Rio Grande do Sul and southern Bahia in my opinion you still get alot more for your cash in brazil than most of u.k.

    i have never been to rio and its not high on my list of places to visit.
     
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