Moving funds back out of Brazil - restrictions?

[davehoskings]

Thanks Paul- proper answers.

Now for the part about moving money out of Brasil(CGT is one thing and moving money out is something else) -would you happen to know the taxe/s involved or percentage as the accountant said another 15% is applied which seems pretty high and I was also told this by an International lawyer in Natal who deals with property transactions.

Regards and respect

Dotty

You have asked both a lawyer and an accountant about this "tax" yet continue to ask for more information on this forum, which, with respect, does not compare to professional advice.

How come you won't even repeat their advice in detail?

Who are you trying to mislead this time Dotty?

 

[Dotty]

Dave ,

Might I suggest that you read this as it may help you.It has certainly helped me and he was able to give figures to help too!

Dotty,

1) If you sell after 5 years of ownership of the property and it is the only property you own in Brazil, and the property sale is under R$440,000 then it is tax free on Capital Gains.

2) Regardless of when you sell or the amount of sale, if you reinvest within 6 months the full amount then this would also be tax free. If you reinvest with the 6months but under the full total sale price, you may pay some CG tax but can be offset against your new investment.

3) You can also claim back 4% a year on de- appreciation for every year you have owned the property against any CG.

Regards
Paul

 

[davehoskings]

Dave ,

Might I suggest that you read this as it may help you.It has certainly helped me and he was able to give figures to help too!

There are plenty of figures being posted and all of them except yours use the names of the tax. I too have posted what taxes are paid, so why is it so hard for you.

Incidently, I have been hearing about a lot of problems with your favorite developer, you know the one where the oracle used to be. They seem to be doing all sorts of nasty things to their clients when they take out money that is owed to them.

 

[Dotty]

There are several excellent developers in Brasil and none of which I have had a problem with and shall continue to enjoy good relationships with them.

Have a nice day .

There are plenty of figures being posted and all of them except yours use the names of the tax. I too have posted what taxes are paid, so why is it so hard for you.

Incidently, I have been hearing about a lot of problems with your favorite developer, you know the one where the oracle used to be. They seem to be doing all sorts of nasty things to their clients when they take out money that is owed to them.

 

[PAUL-brasil]

Thanks Paul- proper answers.

Now for the part about moving money out of Brasil(CGT is one thing and moving money out is something else) -would you happen to know the taxe/s involved or percentage as the accountant said another 15% is applied which seems pretty high and I was also told this by an International lawyer in Natal who deals with property transactions.

Regards and respect

Dotty

As far as I m aware you would only pay a 15% tax to transfer money of out of Brazil if you couldnt prove that taxes had been already paid i.e a Capital Gain tax or income tax in some etc and where the money had come from initially.

Other than that in all honesty I dont know of this 'extra bank international transfer' as i have never returned money yet. I had though asked many times in the past to various different Lawyers (business lawyers who supposely had experience in this, although some seemed to know very little in general strangely!!) about the ease and costing of tranferring money back out, when I was reseaching to start running a active business here in Fortaleza. None had answered about this extra tax, there are of cause standard internation bank charges which are high in Brazil, can vary somewhat from bank to bank some at around 2%.

My only advice on this one is to ask the same questions about your tax issues to a few different accountants, like I found with the lawyers, some seem to know more than others and you often get very different answers. Thats Brazil for you as you will well know, lol.
Regards

 

[davehoskings]

As far as I m aware you would only pay a 15% tax to transfer money of out of Brazil if you couldnt prove that taxes had been already paid i.e a Capital Gain tax or income tax in some etc and where the money had come from initially.

Other than that in all honesty I dont know of this 'extra bank international transfer' as i have never returned money yet. I had though asked many times in the past to various different Lawyers (business lawyers who supposely had experience in this, although some seemed to know very little in general strangely!!) about the ease and costing of tranferring money back out, when I was reseaching to start running a active business here in Fortaleza. None had answered about this extra tax, there are of cause standard internation bank charges which are high in Brazil, can vary somewhat from bank to bank some at around 2%.

My only advice on this one is to ask the same questions about your tax issues to a few different accountants, like I found with the lawyers, some seem to know more than others and you often get very different answers. Thats Brazil for you as you will well know, lol.
Regards

In my experience the biggest problem you will have is the banks as they sometimes take the law upon themselves and decide for you whether to withhold tax on your payment regardless of whether you have paid tax previously or not. The reason they do this is because they are liable for tax payments if they haven't withheld the money and it is shown there was no tax paid.

Fortunately this doesn't happen very often but the best way to ensure it doesn't happen is to make sure the party paying you and the paying bank is talking to your accountant and that they all have the required paperwork.

Big Brazilian developers (like Dotty's favorite Delphi) are the worst to deal with in this regard, as just like big corporations everywhere they don't really care.

 

[Dotty]

Paul,

Thanks for that.

D

As far as I m aware you would only pay a 15% tax to transfer money of out of Brazil if you couldnt prove that taxes had been already paid i.e a Capital Gain tax or income tax in some etc and where the money had come from initially.

Other than that in all honesty I dont know of this 'extra bank international transfer' as i have never returned money yet. I had though asked many times in the past to various different Lawyers (business lawyers who supposely had experience in this, although some seemed to know very little in general strangely!!) about the ease and costing of tranferring money back out, when I was reseaching to start running a active business here in Fortaleza. None had answered about this extra tax, there are of cause standard internation bank charges which are high in Brazil, can vary somewhat from bank to bank some at around 2%.

My only advice on this one is to ask the same questions about your tax issues to a few different accountants, like I found with the lawyers, some seem to know more than others and you often get very different answers. Thats Brazil for you as you will well know, lol.
Regards

 

[markland]

Sending money out

Jennifer,

I have been selling personal properties which have seen hugh gains over the yrs and would like to take some money out to reinvest in the UK market whilst the prices are dropping and basically that's it ,but there are a few ?? in relation to the full tax costs involved when doing this and within a time limit and it would be a 1st.

As most of people informed you, please get in touch with an accountant who is used to make this kind of procedure.

But for sure you will have to pay 15% from the gains of each property sold, and basically you have to present several documents regarding the properties as well how the money got into Brazil.

Well I am making a transaction till end of this month so it might be possibel to give you a better update on this issue.

Ana

 

[Coqueiro]

Can anyone a help a friend out with some information, he wants to know the best way of moving £15k from Brazil to the UK.

The cash was part of the $50k to get an investment visa. The money is currently in a Bradesco account. I would have thought he may be risking his visa but he doesnt think this is a problem. But is worried about getting stung for lots of tax. I cannot help him so thought I would ask here.

 

[robh]

Can anyone a help a friend out with some information, he wants to know the best way of moving £15k from Brazil to the UK.

The cash was part of the $50k to get an investment visa. The money is currently in a Bradesco account. I would have thought he may be risking his visa but he doesnt think this is a problem. But is worried about getting stung for lots of tax. I cannot help him so thought I would ask here.

Tell him to see an accountant and a lawyer, it could save him a lot of money, plus I am certain there are conditions on the money you send in for a visa.

Rob

 

[Coqueiro]

Tell him to see an accountant and a lawyer, it could save him a lot of money, plus I am certain there are conditions on the money you send in for a visa.

Rob

Exactly what I told him Rob, but thought I would ask here to.

 

[PAUL-brasil]

Can anyone a help a friend out with some information, he wants to know the best way of moving £15k from Brazil to the UK.

The cash was part of the $50k to get an investment visa. The money is currently in a Bradesco account. I would have thought he may be risking his visa but he doesnt think this is a problem. But is worried about getting stung for lots of tax. I cannot help him so thought I would ask here.

If the money is in a business account, then your friend is going to have much difficulty! Alot depends on how the business was set up, i.e 1) for trading in 2) and which tax method is used. In most cases any money that leaves the business acc needs a Fiscal receipt. If all money is not accounted for which has left the acc then the business would be fined on top of paying taxes of the missing money. Although there are certain tax methods for certain businesses where fiscals are not often neccessary.

1 option would be to completely close down the company and tranfer all the money back. They would be bank charges envolved but no taxes, assuming that the business was set up and tranferred correctly in the first instance.

2nd option is totally thinking outside of the box, but just about staying within the laws, technically.

3rd option is totally illegal.

Regards
Paul

 

[debzor]

Can anyone a help a friend out with some information, he wants to know the best way of moving £15k from Brazil to the UK.

The cash was part of the $50k to get an investment visa. The money is currently in a Bradesco account. I would have thought he may be risking his visa but he doesnt think this is a problem. But is worried about getting stung for lots of tax. I cannot help him so thought I would ask here.

Rob is correct - there are implications for your friend with regard to the investor visa.

It used to be possible to simply deposit funds in a bank account here to qualify for the visa, but the authorities become wise to that, and now he will have to prove the investment has been into a 'productive activity' with full accounts after 2 years, or your friend may lose his visa.

 

[Coxy]

I've really enjoyed reading this article. Thanks for the entertainment. I'm checking all this with my accountant now, who is Brazilian and very confusing, but if I do get a clear answer I'll post it here (free of charge).

 

[debzor]

I've really enjoyed reading this article. Thanks for the entertainment. I'm checking all this with my accountant now, who is Brazilian and very confusing, but if I do get a clear answer I'll post it here (free of charge).

Your investment with your accountant will be much appreciated by many, when made public, I am sure, especially at the price you propose!

Be sure to involve a fully qualified immigration attorney, should this apply to your circumstances, FIRST...

 

[Coxy]

Hi debzor, I have a permanent residence visa for Brazil. My lawyers and accountants have been more than useful to help me integrate into the Brazilian way of life. I'm sure they will give me the right advice. I use Veirano Advogados and a local accountant, Kaidei, whom have offices in Sao Paulo and Fortaleza. When I know, I'll make a post. I'm very interested in this as it helps my customers decide on buying a property in Brazil.
Cheers
John

 

[Coqueiro]

Update on my friends situation, by luck a British couple are buying some property here, so he is going to send the money back through their purchase. So it will be off the books, tax free and shouldn't complicate his visa.

To give a bit of background he already had a plot out here and some money (not brought in via the Banco Central) and started to build some shops on it. And then decided to apply for a visa so had to bring the $50,000 via the Banco Central to legalize his situation.

 

[Dotty]

That may sound simple,but to sell on it will need to be registered at the notary and to release the escuitura in the other people's name they will still need to proof of purchase payment(money coming into Brasil from your friend) and (proof of money coming into Brasil from the new buyers .If only it was so easy.

Update on my friends situation, by luck a British couple are buying some property here, so he is going to send the money back through their purchase. So it will be off the books, tax free and shouldn't complicate his visa.

To give a bit of background he already had a plot out here and some money (not brought in via the Banco Central) and started to build some shops on it. And then decided to apply for a visa so had to bring the $50,000 via the Banco Central to legalize his situation.

 

[Coxy]

This is the reply from my accountant, Kaidei Contabilidade, Fortaleza and Sao Paulo.

This rules is specific for private people (NOT COMPANY)

1) If you sell after 5 years of ownership of the property and it is the only property you own in Brazil, and the property sale is under R$440,000 then it is tax free on Capital Gains.

Related the sales, if you sell the property after 5 years, you will have an apportunity to reinvest for buying a new land without tax within 6 months for doing the new operation. If you only sell the land after 5 years, you will pay tax. BUT IF YOU REINVEST THE AMOUNT WITHIN 6 MONTHS YOU WON´T PAY TAX. This mention according the Brazilian law is related the quantity of R$ amounts more than R$ 35.000,00, because if you have the amount of sale value less than R$ 35.000,00 you will not pay any tax ( will be tax free). For this rule, the property sale could be over R$ 440k.


2) a) Regardless of when you sell or the amount of sale, if you reinvest within 6 months the full amount then this would also be tax free. b)If you reinvest with the 6months but under the full total sale price, you may pay some CG tax but can be offset against your new investment.
a) it is correct ( you will not pay tax if you do this operation ONLY once per 5 years within 6 months for bying a new piece of land);

b) it is correct ( you will pay tax for the difference)


3) You can also claim back 4% a year on de- appreciation for every year you have owned the property against any CG.
For this question, may you please give me more details for answering this question.

 

[Dotty]

Hi Coxy,

This is the same as Paul Brasil mentioned.

What happens on with other properties owned,as here it is regarding single ownership in Brasil?

Regards Paradise Jericoacoara

This is the reply from my accountant, Kaidei Contabilidade, Fortaleza and Sao Paulo.

This rules is specific for private people (NOT COMPANY)

1) If you sell after 5 years of ownership of the property and it is the only property you own in Brazil, and the property sale is under R$440,000 then it is tax free on Capital Gains.

Related the sales, if you sell the property after 5 years, you will have an apportunity to reinvest for buying a new land without tax within 6 months for doing the new operation. If you only sell the land after 5 years, you will pay tax. BUT IF YOU REINVEST THE AMOUNT WITHIN 6 MONTHS YOU WON´T PAY TAX. This mention according the Brazilian law is related the quantity of R$ amounts more than R$ 35.000,00, because if you have the amount of sale value less than R$ 35.000,00 you will not pay any tax ( will be tax free). For this rule, the property sale could be over R$ 440k.


2) a) Regardless of when you sell or the amount of sale, if you reinvest within 6 months the full amount then this would also be tax free. b)If you reinvest with the 6months but under the full total sale price, you may pay some CG tax but can be offset against your new investment.
a) it is correct ( you will not pay tax if you do this operation ONLY once per 5 years within 6 months for bying a new piece of land);

b) it is correct ( you will pay tax for the difference)


3) You can also claim back 4% a year on de- appreciation for every year you have owned the property against any CG.
For this question, may you please give me more details for answering this question.