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forestflame
New Member
If there is anyone who has either cancelled or re- assigned their contract on a Fadesa property at Med. Saidia and has had no joy getting their deposit monies refunded please PM me so we can discuss appropriate action.
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Lee Filkins
Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
subject
Martin SA needs to pay € million's as part of the take over of Fadesa. With the credit crunch in place, it is not surprising.
You may not be aware that half of Fadesa assets in Morocco has been sold. It may be that your unit is part of this asset sale.
Martin SA needs to pay € million's as part of the take over of Fadesa. With the credit crunch in place, it is not surprising.
You may not be aware that half of Fadesa assets in Morocco has been sold. It may be that your unit is part of this asset sale.
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just-alex
New Member
financial worries
Cynical thought.............is it possible that fadesa/martinsa or whatever they are now called are robbing Peter to pay Paul.??.....i.e they have now been awarded multiple other contracts in Tangier, nr Ceuta and Plange Blanche nr Guelmim in the south to name but a few................ they have to get their start up money from somewhere, borrowing from a bank is expensive and they are ken to keep in with the Government.............
Cynical thought.............is it possible that fadesa/martinsa or whatever they are now called are robbing Peter to pay Paul.??.....i.e they have now been awarded multiple other contracts in Tangier, nr Ceuta and Plange Blanche nr Guelmim in the south to name but a few................ they have to get their start up money from somewhere, borrowing from a bank is expensive and they are ken to keep in with the Government.............
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simon clark
New Member
money due to me from fadesa
Good afternoon, if I can introduce myself, my name is Simon Clark. I have purchased a number of units from Fadesa in Morocco with the purpose of selling them on before completion. This I have done a number of times through Fadesa.
I sold a unit to a Keith Furness. The company I purchased the property through re-wrote the contract and the client paid me 40% of the purchase price upfront (GBP 34,600.00 approx). I was told about 7 months ago that I had to cancel the contract and then Fadesa would re-issue the contract to Keith Furness, as per Morocco law. Because of this, I had to pay back Keith Furness his deposit of 40%, so that he could then pay this to Fadesa. Fadesa then confirmed that they would pay this back to me within 28 days. This is when the problem started.
We are now six months down the line, and I have still not received my money back. I have been promised a number of times via e-mail and numerous telephone calls, that the money has been wired into my bank account, but to this date, this still has not happened. Whenever I have chased them up about payment of the 40% they always come up with what I feel are excuses. In order to obtain the 40% to pay back to Keith Furness, I had to re-mortgage my home, which I have been paying interest on for the last 7 months.
I have been speaking to Mari Carmen in the London office and she has been most helpful. She has spoken to Jesus Jaen Pareja about this on numerous occasions, each time being told that the money will be wired, but it still has not been. I have tired to speak to Jesus Jaen Pareja ,( commercial Director) tel 00212 36624444 e-mail [email protected], on several occasions, but I can never get through to him because as soon as I say who is calling, I am told that he is in a meeting, and he has never replied to any of my e-mails.
I feel that the way Fadesa has treated me is degusting and very unprofessional. I have purchased a number of properties from Fadesa over the last five years, and I cannot think of any reason why they should not pay back my deposit. I have another property which I am due to close on, but I can not do this because I need the 40%.
This e-mail has been sent to you to ask it you could address this matter, otherwise I feel that I have no other option but to proceed with legal action. This obviously is the last thing that I want because of the costs that I would incur, but I am afraid that Fadesa is leaving me with no other option. This whole matter is so frustrating and I find it completely unbelievable that Fadesa can treat people this way.
Good afternoon, if I can introduce myself, my name is Simon Clark. I have purchased a number of units from Fadesa in Morocco with the purpose of selling them on before completion. This I have done a number of times through Fadesa.
I sold a unit to a Keith Furness. The company I purchased the property through re-wrote the contract and the client paid me 40% of the purchase price upfront (GBP 34,600.00 approx). I was told about 7 months ago that I had to cancel the contract and then Fadesa would re-issue the contract to Keith Furness, as per Morocco law. Because of this, I had to pay back Keith Furness his deposit of 40%, so that he could then pay this to Fadesa. Fadesa then confirmed that they would pay this back to me within 28 days. This is when the problem started.
We are now six months down the line, and I have still not received my money back. I have been promised a number of times via e-mail and numerous telephone calls, that the money has been wired into my bank account, but to this date, this still has not happened. Whenever I have chased them up about payment of the 40% they always come up with what I feel are excuses. In order to obtain the 40% to pay back to Keith Furness, I had to re-mortgage my home, which I have been paying interest on for the last 7 months.
I have been speaking to Mari Carmen in the London office and she has been most helpful. She has spoken to Jesus Jaen Pareja about this on numerous occasions, each time being told that the money will be wired, but it still has not been. I have tired to speak to Jesus Jaen Pareja ,( commercial Director) tel 00212 36624444 e-mail [email protected], on several occasions, but I can never get through to him because as soon as I say who is calling, I am told that he is in a meeting, and he has never replied to any of my e-mails.
I feel that the way Fadesa has treated me is degusting and very unprofessional. I have purchased a number of properties from Fadesa over the last five years, and I cannot think of any reason why they should not pay back my deposit. I have another property which I am due to close on, but I can not do this because I need the 40%.
This e-mail has been sent to you to ask it you could address this matter, otherwise I feel that I have no other option but to proceed with legal action. This obviously is the last thing that I want because of the costs that I would incur, but I am afraid that Fadesa is leaving me with no other option. This whole matter is so frustrating and I find it completely unbelievable that Fadesa can treat people this way.
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simon clark
New Member
The only way I can see if we are going to ever get are money back is taking legal action, but I thinking we could jointly cover the cost of legal action, if anyone is interested please let me know
Simon Clark
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simon clark
New Member
taking legal action
Simon Clark
The only way I can see if we are going to ever get are money back is taking legal action, but I thinking we could jointly cover the cost of legal action, if anyone is interested please let me know
Simon Clark
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Lee Filkins
Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
subject
Sorry, Simon clark. I am not the one to kick some one when they are down. However you deserve what you get when dealing with such an unprofessional, unethical, uncaring and bordering onto corrupt outfit like Fadesa.
As you may know that Fadesa has been sold off to Martin SA and half of their Assets in Morocco are also sold off. Fadesa has messed up big time carrying on with their business practises in Saadia. The local knowledge is that the King has been very annoyed with the lack of infrastructure, sanitation, water supply and other activities, that he has shown Fadesa the red card. The king had placed his reputation on Saadia as the first and the flag ship project of the Azur plan.
The balance/stage payments of the purchase price due to Fadesa by Martin SA, has been creating big cash flow problems for them and in the present credit crunch and the state of Spainish construction industry, I
know that even the well established developers are struggling to raise cash. The buzz word is survival.
If you feel that you can name or shame "Fadesa" on this or other forum you are wasting your time. Just sue them and put it down to experience.
Sorry, Simon clark. I am not the one to kick some one when they are down. However you deserve what you get when dealing with such an unprofessional, unethical, uncaring and bordering onto corrupt outfit like Fadesa.
As you may know that Fadesa has been sold off to Martin SA and half of their Assets in Morocco are also sold off. Fadesa has messed up big time carrying on with their business practises in Saadia. The local knowledge is that the King has been very annoyed with the lack of infrastructure, sanitation, water supply and other activities, that he has shown Fadesa the red card. The king had placed his reputation on Saadia as the first and the flag ship project of the Azur plan.
The balance/stage payments of the purchase price due to Fadesa by Martin SA, has been creating big cash flow problems for them and in the present credit crunch and the state of Spainish construction industry, I
know that even the well established developers are struggling to raise cash. The buzz word is survival.
If you feel that you can name or shame "Fadesa" on this or other forum you are wasting your time. Just sue them and put it down to experience.
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just-alex
New Member
Simon have PM ed you re this matter.........
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alfonsooo
New Member
im afraid to say it but looking at Fadesa's finances and all the posts on this matter - I fear we will all be waiting a long time to see any of our money back....
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just-alex
New Member
martinsafadesa refinancing
Anyone got good spanish?............have a look at the website for said company under 'press releases'.......from the economist dated 18th March.....seems to explain the figures...........this is their attempt to dispel fears..........seems that they had an extra 'bridging loan' of 25% to buy fadesa out which is what caused the problem.....plus another large main loan of 56%...........we'll soon know the real extent of the problem I guess....
Anyone got good spanish?............have a look at the website for said company under 'press releases'.......from the economist dated 18th March.....seems to explain the figures...........this is their attempt to dispel fears..........seems that they had an extra 'bridging loan' of 25% to buy fadesa out which is what caused the problem.....plus another large main loan of 56%...........we'll soon know the real extent of the problem I guess....
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SallySlann
New Member
We asked for our money back last May and are still waiting!
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redangel7861
New Member
Very Worrying article
Very worrying, according to this article the company is very close to insolvency. Very concerned as I have purchased one of their developments in Marrakech (Atlas Golf).
Feed Article | Business |
Very worrying, according to this article the company is very close to insolvency. Very concerned as I have purchased one of their developments in Marrakech (Atlas Golf).
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redangel7861
New Member
Slightly better article but still worrying:Feed Article | Business |
Very worrying, according to this article the company is very close to insolvency. Very concerned as I have purchased one of their developments in Marrakech (Atlas Golf).
Martinsa Fadesa reaches debt renegotiation agreement with international funds - Forbes.com
Hopefully the company can pull through this difficult period.
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Mr Ri
New Member
An alternative strategy
An alternative strategy
I've not invested in the Fadesa properties, but it seems to me that there is another approach that might work out the best for all stakeholders.
Fadesa need cash badly in order to survive, hence they are not going to give you back your monies unless they are absolutely forced to by the courts, and even then, if they are going bust why bother.
Some Fadesa buyers think the product is substandard or not worth the money, and therefore, don't want it any more.
Rather than collectively go through the lawyers and spend a load more money with a risk of getting nothing, why not collectively try to do a deal with Fadesa to take the properties as they are for say 75% of the monies. In a parallel approach Adohha (or another) to complete the properties for the remaining 25%.
Fadesa might just go for this, because they need the money so badly, and at least you end up with the title for an asset. Addoha might go for it, because they have an interest in Mediterrania Saidia being the Plan Azur flagship resort.
The alternative is you could end up with less than nothing - no property, no returned money, just a big legal bill.
Got to be worth a try, I would have thought!
Regards Mr Ri, the home of saidiavacations
An alternative strategy
I've not invested in the Fadesa properties, but it seems to me that there is another approach that might work out the best for all stakeholders.
Fadesa need cash badly in order to survive, hence they are not going to give you back your monies unless they are absolutely forced to by the courts, and even then, if they are going bust why bother.
Some Fadesa buyers think the product is substandard or not worth the money, and therefore, don't want it any more.
Rather than collectively go through the lawyers and spend a load more money with a risk of getting nothing, why not collectively try to do a deal with Fadesa to take the properties as they are for say 75% of the monies. In a parallel approach Adohha (or another) to complete the properties for the remaining 25%.
Fadesa might just go for this, because they need the money so badly, and at least you end up with the title for an asset. Addoha might go for it, because they have an interest in Mediterrania Saidia being the Plan Azur flagship resort.
The alternative is you could end up with less than nothing - no property, no returned money, just a big legal bill.
Got to be worth a try, I would have thought!
Regards Mr Ri, the home of saidiavacations
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redangel7861
New Member
Whatever the situation with Fadesa in Spain, Fadesa Maroc is 50% owned by Groupe Addoha | Bâtisseurs de bonheur... and Fadesa's own Moroccan corporate vehicles. These interests are ring-fenced so I am confident our investments are safe. The king will not let anything happen to his tourism plan and has a close relationship with the Addoha board.
I believe the Atlas Golf Development in Marrakech is Fully bank guaranteed, so this should give investors some confidence.
I believe the Atlas Golf Development in Marrakech is Fully bank guaranteed, so this should give investors some confidence.
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simon clark
New Member
thanks for the reply
this sounds like a reply from someone who works for fadesa, or sales property in Morocco, if possible could I give you some facts, Fadesa are holding a number of clients money for as long as a year, I my case I don't even have a property I was told to sign it over to the new buyer, and 8 months down line I still have not received my deposit back and I can not see when I will receive it back, also I know there is a number of clients who have had major quality problems with Fadesa, I gave them a snagging list 7 months ago, and still none of the work has been down, this is not a case of trying to slag of Fadesa this is just facts.
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redangel7861
New Member
Simon.
I take exception to the fact that you have accused me of working for Fadesa!!!! I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM SO CALM DOWN!!!
I have purchased on the Atlas golf development, Marrakech and have already paid two installments towards my purchase, so I have many thousands to loose (like you). I have sent mails to the Fadesa representatives in the UK and the agent who I have purchsed off, and am awaiting reponse from both. As far as I am aware this situation should not effect the completion of the Atlas Golf Development as Fadesa have managed to re-negotiaite their debt payment terms with the creditors.
Building works have not stopped and still continue, until I am assured that Fadesa will complete the whole development I will make no further payments to Fadessa. I recently received pictures of the construction progress on the Atlas Golf Development and things seem to be coming along well. Please take the time and look at the Atlas Golf Thread where I have posted these pictures and you will see that I am not an agent or Fadesa representative!!!
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SallySlann
New Member
And where do the Estate Agents stand in all this?
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Lee Filkins
Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
subject
They are not standing anywhere. They have taken their commission. The agency law covers their position as they are only agents.
If Redangle thinks that the agent will be fighting his corner, he is sadly mistaken, further if you think that the funding that Fadesa has renegotiated last week with the banks was for finishing the properties that you all have bought think again. Martin Fadesa will now focus on Spain as they will not be throwing good many or shall I saw borrowed money on assets that have been sold.
They are not standing anywhere. They have taken their commission. The agency law covers their position as they are only agents.
If Redangle thinks that the agent will be fighting his corner, he is sadly mistaken, further if you think that the funding that Fadesa has renegotiated last week with the banks was for finishing the properties that you all have bought think again. Martin Fadesa will now focus on Spain as they will not be throwing good many or shall I saw borrowed money on assets that have been sold.
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redangel7861
New Member
Camel.
I guess time will tell if the product is finished or not. But it is my belief that 50% of Fadesa's Moroccan Assets were sold to Addoha to protect purchasers against this very scenario. If Fadesa fail to finish the product then Addoha will. As far as I am aware it is Addoha who are dealing with all construction issues in Morocco now and the buid in Atals Golf is coming along nicely.
One thing I find quite worriying about you is that you seem to take joy out of others mis-fourtune, I have been reading your comments and you have stated on many occasions "If you deal with Fadesa you deserve everything you get". Now, I suggest you have a little more compassion and understanding or comment less on this issue if you can't add constructive comments.
Gloating on other people's mis-fourtune is not the done thing. Like many institutions in the world, be it banks, Technology companies or construction companies (all other the world, not only Spian),credit is hard to attain. Until the liquidity issue is remedied these companies will struggle in the short-term, but it is my belief that it is not in the interest of Fadesa, Addoha or the Morrocan King to have thousands of unfinished products and unhappy customers in Morocco, the king will just not allow it.
Now you seem to have a problem with people investing in Morocco and have failed on many occasions to answer my question as to where you have purchased in Morocco. I have told you exactly where I have purchsed in Morocco and on what development, why don't you do the same.
With regards to me taliking to the agent, I am aware that he has no influence over this issue, but I have build up a good working relationship with him and I value his opinions. I am in direct contact with Fadesa's UK office and will be persuing this matter further. I know that there is a full bank Gurantee on the
Atlas Gold development, provided by a 1st Tier European Bank. The development is in the La Palameria region of Marrakech which is the most affluent area of this region. I am convinced that the King will not allow an unfinished product in this region as it is the centre peace of the Marrakech area.
Again, I am convinced and quite comfortable that I will get the product I paid for. I believe the issue here is with people not getting their deposits refunded from Fadesa. I feel sorry for these individuals and I hope these issues are resolved soon.
