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Will Spain NEVER learn

Discussion in 'Spanish property' started by Chris in Spain, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Chris in Spain

    Chris in Spain New Member

    Once again "that" story has emerged, which has contributed considerably to end the spanish dream. In Elfas (Almeria), another 19 houses have been declared illegal by the courts and claims for demolition are being made, during the ongoing court cases. A spokesman for the El Fas Complex residents claims that all 200 dwellings may also be affected. Once again the usual pattern of deceit, lies, greed and bent developers connected to politicians who would hardly stand close scrutiny, is evident. All the foreign press have a field day with this sort of information. Surely Spain can't be that blinkered that it can't see what irreversable damage it is doing to its economy and property market. Although these incidents are very few in the big picture, it nevertheless puts the spotlight on the seedy side of this country. Those who are seeking to invest or buy for personal occupation have run a km or two, and I can't say I blame them!

    It is high time Spain got its act together, the red tape, erratic decisions, dodgy developers and politicians, combined with total lack of interest except money, will not suffice in this competitive global market. It's no wonder emerging countries outside the Eurozone who do not have the problems spain has created, are all doing reasonably well in comparison.

    It is more than time for Spain to "Wake up and smell the coffee"
     
  2. Cornholio

    Cornholio New Member

    Will this do the trick?

    EU warns Spain over development

    The European Parliament has voted in favour of a report criticising Spanish property laws.

    The report says Spanish legislation allowing developers to acquire private land below market rates breaches the European Convention on Human Rights.

    MEPs were acting on complaints from Britons and other homeowners who feared their homes might be bulldozed.

    MEPs say they hope the vote will increase pressure on the Spanish government to change its laws.

    'Extensive urbanisation'

    The European Parliament voted overwhelmingly to freeze hundreds of millions of euros in Spain's EU funding if the Spanish government does not tackle what the parliament condemned as "extensive urbanisation" practices.

    BBC NEWS | World | Europe | EU warns Spain over development
     
  3. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    I suspect that it will take some time for the procedure known by us Brits as 'land grab' to be resolved as the issue is quite complicated
    Some land owners do make a lot of money out of the re classification of agriculture land to residential even after infrastructure payments

    But in the mean time buyers should just avoid any properties which have any chance of being subject to land grab
    it may mean that you do not buy the home you want but it is better to be safe than sorry afterwards
    Good legal advice will in general enable you to avoid this

    And it does not mean that you should not buy country properties, I can show you many in attractive Spanish environments which will not be subject to a land grab risk
     
  4. Meter Mike

    Meter Mike New Member

    I think it is still OK to buy in Spain provided you use a good lawyer.

    Most of the old problems stem from lazy or incompetent lawyers who fail to check out the legality of property and almost always never push for a bank guarantee.

    A good lawyer is a must.

    Regards,

    Mike
     
  5. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    Agree Meter Mike....and with distressed sales, big builders reductions, 2009 is a good time to buy
    Eg a 2 bed duplex in Almeria,original sale price a few years ago 185.000 € now owner needs to sell asap and will take 134.000 € ...great views from the solarium
    Many more like this...just ask for details and also ' any price advertised on the web site' is open to offers......it is still a buyers market!
     
  6. Meter Mike

    Meter Mike New Member

    It depends on the views Brian,

    If it's front line beach, if it's near to an airport, shops, golf etc.

    There are lots of 2 bed apartments too far away from these facilities and still asking €120,000.

    If they are more than 10 mins from any or all of those types of facilities then they are worth €80,000 or less.

    Almeria is a backwater and should be priced accordingly.

    There are 2 bed 2 bath apartments near Marbella down to €150,000!

    Back in 2000, when I first began to look, I could have bought an apartment near the beach for €45,000 so to pay €80,000 now is about reasonable.
     
  7. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    Interesting, your view on Almeria
    Quiet it certainly is, very popular with the Spanish.....Prime Minister and some other Ministers have holiday homes in Vera Playa
    Best weather in mainland Europe and some of the best sandy beaches
    Cabo de Gata Natural Park and it's environment is attractive to many
    The AVE is coming ,making Madrid circa 2 1/2 hrs away and plans for a comprehemsive development of one of the last coastal area in Spain available are proposed

    A lot of the locals are against this as they like the existing environment but for medium to long term property values, this is very positive

    I started going to CDS circa 35 years ago and it was then just starting to get going...Almeria is a bit like that now.....between Aguilas and Mojacar is the best part

    Besides the property growth prospects, I also very much enjoy visiting the area and will eventually winter near Huercal Overa and for life style buyers just now for the price of an apartment in CDS you will get a nice villa
     
  8. Meter Mike

    Meter Mike New Member

    I'm not knocking Almeria per se Brian, I happen to like the areas you mentioned, however, it's all about demand and quality of facilities.

    The CDS is by far the most popualr area of Spain for all nationalities. You only need to look at the sheer amount of building that has happened there over the last 20 years.

    Mojacar area is a couple of hours away from a convenient airport and as such should reflect in the value of property sales prices and rentals.

    There are indeed lot's of tourist who like the quieter areas but they are quieter for a reason, and that has to be related to facilities.
     
  9. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    Vera which is a central point of the area between Aguilas and Mojacar is circ 45 mins from Almeria Airport, via the toll road circa 45 mins to San Javier [Mercia] just over 2 hours to Alicante and Granada
    So in relative terms not that far away from a good airport- for example Estepona CDS must be 45 mins from Malaga via motorway and 2 1/2 hours on th coast road!!.....on a good day

    The area does not lack facilities just that there are less of them than CDS although they do lack 5* hotels but this is part of the new development proposals and the marina at Garrucha is just being extended

    CDS will always be the most popular and most expensive of the Costas because ' as you say' the majority do look for the glamour and active social life

    But properties are expensive, even today, and as the sun is the same in the other Costas then for many, now and in the future, the financial cost of CDS is too high

    Recently we read in the UK papers about the '£5' drink on the Costas.....meaning CDS and the odd front line bars elsewhere

    A few minutes inland in this part of Almeria you can get a coffee for 1 € and a small beer for 1.5€ !!!!
    Or a nice lunch of 4 freshly prepared tapas and 2 beers for 7 €
     
  10. Prop-erty

    Prop-erty New Member

    Chris,

    Would you happen to know whether this is more so in some areas than others, and if so, where is it best/worst?

    Much appreciated.
     
  11. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    There are pockets everywhere of 'illegal properties' and it is not just UK buyers but also Spanish and other EU
    In Almeria and CDS plans are under way to make the majority of them legal but that will take time and there will be some which will never be legal......eg- those built in Ramblas and River beds!

    That does not mean that you should not buy now if you want to -infact it is a very good time to buy

    The location you want is your decision but provided you adopt the same attitude to buying in Spain as you do in UK , then you will not have any problems
    As always anywhere you need a good lawyer

    Just now you will find that most of the properties with excessive asking prices are those sold privately as many owners have not come to terms with reality in 2009

    Agents can no longer afford to market overpriced properties so the majority are at a sensible level, and that includes ready now where you can get circa 25% off the original asking prices

    And always remember, you can make an offer on any asking price!

    If you want any information of the area in Spain between Alicante and Mojacar , please get in touch , lots of good deals......and all legal!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  12. Cornholio

    Cornholio New Member

    Update............

    MEPs back Spanish property victims

    The European Parliament has called on Spain to reform planning laws that have allowed developers to acquire private land below market rates and forced homeowners from their properties, with some even having their homes demolished.

    But the conflict raises questions about how much power MEPs actually have, the BBC's Stephen Chittenden says.

    When Len and Helen Prior moved from the UK into their Spanish retirement home, it had all they wanted - a swimming pool for keeping fit, a plot of land where they could indulge their mutual love of gardening, and a warm climate to help improve their health.

    But within a few years the house had been bulldozed, and the Priors had joined the thousands of expatriate homeowners who have fallen foul of Spanish regional planning laws.

    Their friend Lennox Napier, a local newspaper editor, has lived in Spain for 41 years.

    He runs AULAN, (Abusos Urbanisticos Levante Almeriense, No!), an organisation which helps residents protect their properties from planning abuses.

    Mr Napier says British MEPs have at least responded to the problems, unlike their Spanish counterparts.

    "It's clear they're trying to help", he says.

    "Some of the British MEPs have been out here to visit for a fact finding mission, offending the Spanish hosts but encouraging those of us who've come here to live to think that there is a voice for us in Brussels."

    BBC NEWS | World | Europe | MEPs back Spanish property victims
     
  13. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    An article in a local Almeria free paper recently said that the Priors have had a good court decision and sems to be moving towards a possiblt settlement
    I do not know the full facts but some say that it is not all blame on the Spanish system but lets hope that they get a good settlement

    And all the others who have properties with legality problems

    But at least now in Spain ,regulations have been improved and if you buy now and ' treat the process with the same respect as you do in UK' and take no risks 'just because you have found the Spanish home of your dreams !'..........then there will be no problems

    Life style buyers can benefit form good discounts from developers just now where unsold stock is often at 'asking prices' 25/30% less than previously

    A good example of the value of distressed sales was a 2 bed duplex in Palomares Almeria bought several years ago at 185.000 € and owner had to sell at 130.000 € to clear the debt....and there are others similar.....you just need to take a trip to Spain and we can find what you want
    Even at Polaris World there are discounted re sales and offers

    But how long these will all last is an unknown question?......some think that the market may have bottomed and certainly if the £ exchange rate improves, there will be many who are ready to buy

    Spain, I think has learnt its lesson but the old problems are taking time to be sorted...it always does in every country

    Spain is convenient for northern europeans and the weather and life stye still good.....it will always be popular long term with life styel buyers from UK and others in EU

    So the odds are in favour of the buyers coming back to Spain as we come out of this recession
     
  14. Cornholio

    Cornholio New Member

  15. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    Yes it still a problem for those who bought in the boom times and we all hope that everything will get sorted but it is taking a long time and certainly makes new buyers think!

    But reality is that in 2010 all controls are tight and provided a buyer takes the same precautions as you would buying in UK then you will not have any problems

    There are good deals about -CAM Bank sales with big discounts and 80% LTV to non residents and all fully legal

    I think history will report that the recession sorted out the Spanish property problems and set the future for buying in Spain in a safe legal footing

    But we all hope that those who have the problems do get sorted
     
  16. Cornholio

    Cornholio New Member

    Here we go again............

    Spanish MEPs join criticism on holiday home law

    Spanish MEPs have joined counterparts in criticising the treatment of expats who face having homes in Spain bulldozed under coastal protection law.

    Rules introduced in 1988 left coastal properties liable to demolition and thousands of British and other European owners stripped of property rights.

    MEPs say homeowners have been given no legal redress or compensation. They have asked for the law to be clarified.

    Spain insists owners of legally built homes are being "fairly compensated".

    The law was designed to protect the coast and set limits on building, allowing municipal leisure developments but not private homes.

    Since its introduction, thousands of people who live or have holiday homes in Spain have discovered that properties bought legitimately through the Spanish legal system had, in fact, been built in breach of the regulations.

    Meanwhile, in Andalucia, regional authorities have applied the law retrospectively to declare legitimately built properties illegal.

    Since the law came into force, courts have rejected 96% of owners' appeals against expropriation, the European Parliament's petitions committee was told.

    BBC News - Spanish MEPs join criticism of holiday home law
     
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