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What rent do you predict?

Discussion in 'Morocco Property' started by Investy, Sep 22, 2007.

  1. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    My research on Spannish golf property reveals high season prices that range from £400 per week to £3000 p w and beyond. Very difficult for me to pin down why such varience.

    MY ESTIMATE FOR WWT8 GOLF VILLAS (by summer 2011):

    High season £1200 per week for the 4 - 500m2 inner plots and up to £1800 per week for the larger front line golf plots.


    Some Polaris World villas in Spain rent for less than this but the gardens look very small, no marina, no beach (beaches are a drive off site), nothing like the sports and leisure facilities, no onsite hotels (1 or 2 sites had A hotel) to feed rentals and from what Ive seen the Polaris World villas at Mar Menor are not very chic and the interiors look pretty basic.
     
  2. fws

    fws New Member

    I'd like to hope - but that looks incredibly high to me!!!
     
  3. Mikeyv

    Mikeyv New Member

    Yes I agree, you need to bear in mind this is still morocco
     
  4. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Yes, I hear you on this, but worth keeping in mind there have always been very expensive properties in third world carribean destinations.

    The trump card for Saidia has to be the breadth and depth of onsite leisure and sporting facilities, but too early to tell exactly how much of a premium they will add.

    Perhaps £700 a week in highseason?
     
  5. anna2

    anna2 New Member

    I think its always going to be tricky to make these sort of estimates. For comparison there is a big range of properties available at Polaris World Polaris World - UK Sales and Reservations but prices are from 120K to 1.5 million Euros. The facilities are pretty good but rental returns vary. So much depends on how the property is furnished (needs to look inviting in the pictures) and how good the rental agent is at marketing.
     
  6. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Anna

    I've done a comparison of my golf villa is Saidia with the villas on Polaris Worlds 'Condado de Alhama Resort' which is the one one PW say has the most sports and leisure facilities;

    3 bed 2 bath detatched villas on the golf (not front line though) of 143m2 with pool are FROM £450000 including 10% for Taxes. LJDF golf villas second line of similar size went for about £180000.

    The downside compared to Saidia LJDF as follows;

    Nearest beach is a 15 minute drive. I would say this is a very considerable downside espcially for golf widos and thier children. Much more freedom to simply be able to walk or trolly bus to Saidia's own beach.

    No marina, let alone one of the stature of Saidias

    No on site hotels to feed the rentals

    Instead of 500 shops, about 20 are planned.


    The end user will be able to enjoy a lot more experiences at Saidia.

    RENTS;

    Polaris world tell me that they expect 50% occupancy and rents on the above villa to be typically £500 - £1000 per week (but less for villas not built within the golf courses). I would say Saidia's considerable size, breadth of facilities, beach and marina should yield rents on a golf villa of average proportions in the region of £750 - £1500 per week.
     
  7. anna2

    anna2 New Member

    Polaris World

    Hi Investy

    I think those villas are the very top of the range at Polaris. I guess they two are really offering different types of investment. Some the properties at Polaris start from £80,000 which is pretty cheap these days. For the bigger villas I would certainly do some shopping around to compare the options.


    Good luck with it.


    A
     
  8. anna2

    anna2 New Member

    Hey,

    I mean't to say that maybe I can rent your place sometime! - Sounds good.

    Cheers,

    A
     
  9. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Anna

    I compared the Polaris villa range that seems most similar to those Im comparing to in Saidia. Both are to be luxuriously appointed, have aircon and German applicanes and the dimensions are very similar. The Saidia product was less than halve the Polaris world cost yet you get an onsite beach, marina and far far more facilities so I think if anything the rents will be higher from Saidia so the investment case appears pretty sound.
     
  10. anna2

    anna2 New Member

    Hi

    I think Morocco is a beautiful country with lots to offer and Polaris World is certainly very different!

    Anna
     
  11. exfcsm

    exfcsm New Member

    Hi there
    If you're looking to go out to Saidia in the future, my apartment is ready to use. By all means send me a message and I can send you the details.
    Shani
     
  12. howellmr

    howellmr New Member

    I'm sure Saidia can justify the rental numbers you discussed. The challenge with Saidia for the first number of years will be occupancy rates. There are a large number of rooms (hotels, appartments and villas) coming available at one time, however tourism is a new area will take years to match supply.
    My experience has shown that this often creates a rental price war. This is a double edged sword.
    + It will make Saidia more attractive (cheaper) to tourists and expedite increased occupancy rates.
    - It drops expected rentals which may will likely result in negative cash flow driving a number of investors to dump their "losing" investment prematurely, putting downward pressure on selling prices.

    All of this will work itself out in the long run, and I'm convinced Saidia will become a greatly desired world class resort in the long run, which is why I have invested, but the question in this unstable global economy is, how long is the LONG RUN??
     
  13. Mr Ri

    Mr Ri New Member

    howellmr

    I agree that Mediterrania Saidia is a longer-term investment. With a resort of this scale, its going to take sometime (perhaps 2010-11) before all the sports and leisure facilities are constructed and operable, and the big name shops, restaurants and bars open. The big question for me is quality, and whether this resort will deliver the 5 star standards the marketing suggests.
    With 5 star facilities then Mediterrania Saidia will deliver excellent rental returns for those properties that meet similar standards (i.e. luxury properties in a luxury resort will deliver the greatest returns).

    However, I do think that we owners will need to play our part to ensure the developers and authorities deliver the standards that will make our investments flourish, both in terms of finish quality of the properties and of the sports and leisure facilities.

    The good news is that the Barcelo and Iberostar hotels are opening this summer (with c.1000 rooms to fill), and the Moroccan government have announced that phase 1 will open this summer. These two factors will start a marketing engine promoting Mediterrania Saidia to holidaymakers. It is the success, or not, of this marketing engine that will determine how long is long-term.
     
  14. just-alex

    just-alex New Member

    rentals

    I was just wondering with all this talk of high rental yields why no-one has mentioned the dificulties of actually getting there.!!!!

    If the expansion of OUjda airport overruns by as much as everything else people are going to be deprived of income.
     
  15. Mr Ri

    Mr Ri New Member

    just-alex

    I agree its relatively difficult to get to Mediterrania Saidia from the UK at the moment. But not so difficult from mainland Europe - France, Spain, Belgium and Germany all have a number of direct flights to Oujda, Nador and Mellila.

    The expansion of Oujda airport is important, but not immediately essential. Oujda, Nador and Mellila airports can still receive flights, and are within a reasonable transfer distance from Mediterrania Saidia (although the border at Melilla is a pain).

    In my experience, it will take at least one year of being open to tourists before a reasonable rental market gets going, and some owners will not get early returns. But a big indicator will be seeing how the hotels fair when they open this summer, and whether this accelerates the completion of other infrastructure (given that commercial operations can begin to get some returns from their investments).
     
  16. just-alex

    just-alex New Member

    rental and travel

    just-alex

    Well....I disagree. As someone who travelled extensively in the past with small children on family holidays I can assure you that a direct flight from the country of origin is essential and will influence choice of destination.
    Having to juggle two different flight bookings is time consuming and a real hassle.
    In addition to that the system of baggage and allowances between different carriers is a nightmare. At the moment luggage allowances are approximately5 to 10kgs less than they used to be. Hand luggage allowances vary enormously not just from carrier to carrier but from airport to airport. Excess baggage charges are also variable as are maximum loads between different types of aircraft.
    I have been in the position of travelling with one carrier who permitted my luggage for two months stay to travel with me free of charge only to then be charged almost 300 euros by the onward carrier for the second stage of the flight.
    In addition having to handle luggage twice is a real problem for people like me with limited mobility. I imagine that golfers will also not be too happy at having to manhandle bulky clubs twice as well........
    All in all I feel that many promises were made about direct flights being available and that flight times published on various agents websites and developers publicity are grossly misleading qouoting times of two or three hours flying time from London.......in fact it can take up to a whole day with a five hour changeover or overnight stay involved depending on route, time and availability.
    The fact is that it is the Brits who are being disadvantaged by delays in development of property and hotels by up to two years which has had a knock on effect on flights and the delay of work on Oujda airport will add to that.
     
  17. Mr Ri

    Mr Ri New Member

    just-alex

    I think we're discussing different subjects.

    I was considering rental returns and that owners will need to market their properties to French, German and Spanish holidaymakers until the UK flights get going.

    You're complaining about delays to direct flights between the UK and Oujda.

    Perhaps you should start a new thread about direct flights from the UK.

    :D Mr Ri
     
  18. fws

    fws New Member

    Of course there aren't direct flights yet - there's no demand. As the resort gets built,the demand will grow and more flights will be put on. The airlines aren't going to fly there until the holidaymakers want to go. There will be the travel companies' huge buying and marketing power going into co-ordinating everything. It just takes time to all come together. It will - a brand new destination on this scale takes longer than buying somewhere established. Too many people are panicking far too early.
     
  19. just-alex

    just-alex New Member

    AS I pointed out , the only reason why there's no demand is that the resort is delayed by almost two years!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Just Alex, your right, lack of direct flights will impinge on demand, however, there will be direct flights once the development fully opens. The Moroccan authorities are expanding the local airport in light of expected demand from up to 11 onsite hotels (Barcelos largest N African hotel for example) and the rented non hotel units.
     
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