Trouble with managing agents - Golden Dreams, Sunny Beach

[qwerty]

Hi everyone

I am having problems with the managing agents in the complex where I own an apartment in Sunny Beach.

While the rental income has been lower each season (understandable, given the amount of new developments built over the years),they recently held a General Assembly (of which they conveniently gave notice a few days before the meeting took place) where their representatives and the owners from the 3 shops were the only attendees.
They decided that the management fee was to double to €12 per sqm and I was also recently informed that the same Assembly decided that their rental commission was to also double to 30% of generated income.
To top it all off we still havent been paid any of the monies due for 2009 season as they are citing financial difficulties.
This is ridicolous.

Anyone please advise.

 

[KayJay]

Qwerty

The new "Condominium Act" states quite clearly that a General Assembly may be convened with three days notice, so it would appear that the meeting was called perfectly legally.

However, the Act also clearly states that, for the Assembly to make valid decisions, a quorum of owners or representatives holding a minimum of 67 shares of the common areas between them is mandatory. You then have a period between 7 days and one month to contest the contents of the minutes (although the Act is unclear as to whether this includes the actual decisions themselves, since it appears to refer to the minuting of the decisions). It is worth checking that these conditions were properly adhered to and challenging the decisions if not.

If the 12 euros/metre refers to the management fee, then it certainly sounds well over the top - however, if it's for maintenance rather than management then it's probably towards the higher-end of the "acceptable" range. If it's for both, then you appear to have something of a bargain!

In all seriousness, might I counsel you to avoid open statements such as "X are ripping us off "? I am aware of several cases in Bulgaria where the courts have awarded VERY substantial damages for defamation - and these awards ARE enforceable in the courts of other EU member-countries....

 

[qwerty]

Hi KayJay,
Thanks for the reply.

The assembly was initially attended by 2 of the shops owners and the representative from the managing agents having a 24.2% shares of the common parts of the building.
The meeting was then postponed because of a lack of quorum. one hour later with exactly the same people being present the shares had gone up to 100%. How is that possible?

what do you think of 30% commission on the income generated? is that in line with the market?

Thanks for the advice :wink:

 

[KayJay]

Qwerty

You're getting into some rather arcane areas of the law here.

I'm not sure where the "100% of the common parts" comes from; are you suggesting that between them the attendees own ALL of the complex and hence that there are no other owners? If so, I guess you aren't an owner and therefore no problem :wink:

On the assumption that this isn't the case, you need to consider a number of points:

- Was the quorum indeed met in terms of the shares held or represented by those attendees? The "Condo Act" requires a register to be kept of owners/occupiers of all the premises within the complex, together with floor-plans, details of expenditure etc and you might want to start by asking to see these (be aware that legally there is no obligation on the Management of the complex to show you anything apart from your own details, but they probably aren't aware of that!)

- The General Assembly can be convened by written request of the ownere/representatives of 20% of the shares of the common parts but, by and large, the decisions need the agreement of the "holders" of 67% of those shares.

- Were the representatives of the managing agents legally appointed by the titular owner of the company (with POAs)? If not, their presence, let alone their votes, at the meeting was meaningless.

-What is the status of the complex itself? Some are single legal entities while in others, the individual blocks are actually separate entities. In the latter case, a General Assembly is required in each block...

I could go on but I think you get the drift! I'd say that you need to get some co-owners together and hire a Bulgarian lawyer to advise/represent you; I can recommend one if you want but do make sure you get one who REALLY knows this particular field.

As regards the 30% commission, there you're in the field of Bulgarian Contract Law. Basically, it all boils down to what is in your agreement with the Managing Agents; as in all these cases, it's essential to read all contracts and ensure you REALLY understand the implications of what you're signing before you put your "X" in the box. Again, a decent Bulgarian lawyer should be able to look through the agreement and advise as to whether it's flexible, or even binding.

Sadly, whether something is in line with the market has no real bearing if you've signed a contract which permits someone to skin you alive

Luckily, there ARE provisions against clauses in contracts which are manifestly against the interests/rights of the parties concerned but this is very much a moveable feast and subject to judicial interpretation. The mills of the BG Court System grind exceeding-small and in a VERY slow and costly mannner; for the sake of your health, wealth and sanity - try to avoid them!

HTH.

 

[qwerty]

Hi Kay Jay,
thanks for the very detailed reply.

I think these guys have been doing everything by the book, I think they know the system and know how to use it. they must have a good legal team....

are they obliged to provide contact details of the other owners in the complex if i request them?

 

[KayJay]

No - there's no such requirement, I'm afraid...

 

[sunnybulgaria]

Hi everyone

I am having problems with the managing agents in the complex where I own an apartment in Sunny Beach.

While the rental income has been lower each season (understandable, given the amount of new developments built over the years),they recently held a General Assembly (of which they conveniently gave notice a few days before the meeting took place) where their representatives and the owners from the 3 shops were the only attendees.
They decided that the management fee was to double to €12 per sqm and I was also recently informed that the same Assembly decided that their rental commission was to also double to 30% of generated income.
To top it all off we still havent been paid any of the monies due for 2009 season as they are citing financial difficulties.
This is ridicolous.

Anyone please advise.

Hello qwerty, my friend has been offered in the recent time for buying 1 bedroom apartment @ golden dreams complex and I would like to know the current amount for the maintenance fee is it 6Euro per sq.m or 10Euro per sq.m ? and also your view about the whole complex is it advisable for buying or not ?

Many thanks

 

[qwerty]

Hi Sunnybulgaria,

maintenance fee for 2011 is €10 per sqm

Things have improved a lot last year after a number of owners have negotiated better terms with the managing agents. we are also changing tour operators for the 2011 summer season rentals so we ll see.
overall i think it s a good complex to buy into especially after you read some of the horror stories in this forum. obviously it all depends on the price that your friend is paying. do you happen to know how much they are talking about?

 

[sunnybulgaria]

Hi Sunnybulgaria,

maintenance fee for 2011 is €10 per sqm

Things have improved a lot last year after a number of owners have negotiated better terms with the managing agents. we are also changing tour operators for the 2011 summer season rentals so we ll see.
overall i think it s a good complex to buy into especially after you read some of the horror stories in this forum. obviously it all depends on the price that your friend is paying. do you happen to know how much they are talking about?

Hi qwerty,

thanks for your reply ! I will ask , I don't know about the latest price status !
what is the expected rental amount for 1 bedroom apartment in the worst & best case ?

is there any difference in paying the annual maintenance amount if some one is renting during the summer time through the management agents ?

is any other option or better idea for renting, if not through the management ?

 

[qwerty]

last year was about 300 euros net for the whole summer...peanuts!!!
in previous years it was as much as €1500 but that was a few years back...
i dont think it could be any better if you d do it yourself
if your friend is investing for yield i would look elsewhere... i mean a different country all together!!

 

[sunnybulgaria]

last year was about 300 euros net for the whole summer...peanuts!!!
in previous years it was as much as €1500 but that was a few years back...
i dont think it could be any better if you d do it yourself
if your friend is investing for yield i would look elsewhere... i mean a different country all together!!

this is really peanuts...it doesn't even cover the yearly maintenance fees. My friend has been told rental income between 1000-3000 Euro per season !
the offered purchase pries for 1 bedroom is 33K Euro and he hasn't decided yet whether to proceed with the offer or not....

 

[sunnybulgaria]

[QUOTE=sunnybulgaria;

I don't know if the 33K Euro pries realistic is ?

where elsewhere to look... you mean a different country not in Bulgaria ?? as the pries in Bulgaria looks a bit attractive...

 

[qwerty]

this is really peanuts...it doesn't even cover the yearly maintenance fees. My friend has been told rental income between 1000-3000 Euro per season !
the offered purchase pries for 1 bedroom is 33K Euro and he hasn't decided yet whether to proceed with the offer or not....

i m actually talking about the net. €1000-3000 gross is right. after that you have the maintenance fee, the agents commission, the bills, the taxes so last year i ended up with about €300/400 in my pocket and i have used the apartment for 8 days. in previous years i ended up with as much as €1500 net.
on 33k purchase price you are talking 1-2% yield.
it s true prices are very low at the moment. consider i paid about 56K euros in 2005 for my apartment, not much of an investment.
but it s also true there s a lot of people worse off having paid for developments which have never been finished. you just have to take a walk around sunny beach to realize the extent of over development and speculation that s been going on there. at the same time i think that over the next few years there should be a recovery that s why i m holding on to my apartment as long as i dont need the money...

 

[marian o boyle]

reply to qwerty

hello qwerty,
your story is very similar, my advice to you is to cancel business with your rental company and pay your bills yourself. first you have to get your reference number for
your electric bill and when you are in bulgaria set up a bank account and a direct
debit to pay this bill, you can also go to the munincipality to pay your property tax, there is a taxi service that will take you there or you can ask your solicitor in bulgaria to pay it for you all you need is your bulstat card number, you should have got this when you bought your apartment if not the solicitor could have it on file in his office for you, I can give you the name of a reliable company who can do the rental for you and pay the bills too if you give me your email address. The maintenance fees has doubled because there are more likely other owners who have not paid their maintenance so the costs are divided between the owners who do pay so you should ask for a breakdown of the costs and financial statements.
you should also pay the insurance on your apartment yourself as more than likely it has not been paid by the present rental company. Ideally you should try and get the email addresses of all the apartment owners and get in contact with them and try to arrange a general meeting .
hope this is of some help to you.
regards,

 

[hollypops]

this is really peanuts...it doesn't even cover the yearly maintenance fees. My friend has been told rental income between 1000-3000 Euro per season !
the offered purchase pries for 1 bedroom is 33K Euro and he hasn't decided yet whether to proceed with the offer or not....

Golden Dreams is run by the same management as our apts Sunny Dreams, which are just across the road. Many holiday makers from Golden Dreams use our complex as the sun is around the pool all day & there is great food / entertainment. We have a 2 bed apt & was thinking of selling last year, but like many others, are we better to hold on to it & hope the prices go up.

 

[jjoneedge]

Hi There everyone.

Dont know if you can help me or not but I am having trouble with the company that I paid a deposit to in February. Would anyone be able to give me some advice?

Thanks

 

[sunnybulgaria]

i m actually talking about the net. €1000-3000 gross is right. after that you have the maintenance fee, the agents commission, the bills, the taxes so last year i ended up with about €300/400 in my pocket and i have used the apartment for 8 days. in previous years i ended up with as much as €1500 net.
on 33k purchase price you are talking 1-2% yield.
it s true prices are very low at the moment. consider i paid about 56K euros in 2005 for my apartment, not much of an investment.
but it s also true there s a lot of people worse off having paid for developments which have never been finished. you just have to take a walk around sunny beach to realize the extent of over development and speculation that s been going on there. at the same time i think that over the next few years there should be a recovery that s why i m holding on to my apartment as long as i dont need the money...

Hello query, it is been long time...
are you still holding your apartment at Golden Dreams ? if yes how is the situation now...any better progress interms maintenance payment fee and rental income..how was this year at all ?? I am planning to purchase one bedroom appartment and would like to know about the current situation