The Demand Quadruples

[debzor]

You can get an account these days through moneycorp. If you use a property management company then an account isn't necessary. So what other things does an overseas buyer not have?

What ambience did Buzios and Tabatinga ever have?

Actually an overseas buyer is forbidden by law to own ocean islands, large tracts of land above a certain size, and some land on national borders and near military instalations or bases - all of which makes pretty good sense.

I agree that using a management company does tend to negate the need for a local bank account, although most would still prefer to have their own and this is still a negative point, (although not, perhaps, for the management companies!).

Rob, you have mentioned a bank account through Moneycorp before - please can you elaborate on exactly what they can get for non-residents, and at what cost, as this does seem to fly in the face of perceived current C5 account regulations...

Do you actually have one through them, and can make comparisons, which would be a real help?

 

[robh]

Actually an overseas buyer is forbidden by law to own ocean islands, large tracts of land above a certain size, and some land on national borders and near military instalations or bases - all of which makes pretty good sense.

I agree that using a management company does tend to negate the need for a local bank account, although most would still prefer to have their own and this is still a negative point, (although not, perhaps, for the management companies!).

Rob, you have mentioned a bank account through Moneycorp before - please can you elaborate on exactly what they can get for non-residents, and at what cost, as this does seem to fly in the face of perceived current C5 account regulations...

Do you actually have one through them, and can make comparisons, which would be a real help?

I knew about border, size and military restrictions, but not the ocean islands one.

My point was more about ownership rights and the buying process as there are a lot of countries where buying as a foreigner is very restrictive.

I don't have a moneycorp account as I have a Brazilian company and the associated bank account. The moneycorp accounts cost R$100 per month to run and are with the Rendimento bank.

Don't ask me how or if they get around regulations, but our clients and myself have sent a lot of money into Brazil using moneycorp and all went through without problems, all legal, fast and at low cost.

Regards,
Rob.

 

[JMBroad]

Figures from overseas investing here has gone down dramatically and I am not surprised at all .

Dotty... I know living in Brazil one doesn't notice and may tend to forget but you should remember that there is a major economic recession on outside of Brazil - overseas investing has practically stopped everywhere else - the fact that you believe Brazil has slowed down instead of actually having stopped can be taken as a good sign.

Of course yet again from the side of someone who's job it is to handle overseas investors coming to Brazil, I've never heard of so many investment fund directors being interested in Brazil as this year. So while the average Mr Smith buying a holiday home for the family may have somewhat decreased in number, professional investors are increasingly interested in Brazil and <quote> "in the current climate - only interested in Brazil" <endquote> . That quote is from a meeting I had with the manager of an investment fund who have set up in Natal and who have several billion pounds sterling under management around the world.

I have several meetings booked over the next couple of months with directors from investment funds coming to talk with us about the market conditions in general and the opportunities open to them. I will be meeting people from three different continents - yet another example of the attractiveness of Brazil at the moment.

As for "having the same rights as locals" I believe Rob was comparing Brazil with countries like Egypt where there are limitations on how much land you can buy, how many houses you can own, etc or India where you can only purchase if you are a descendant of Indian nationality - etc

Have a nice day

 

[DGM42]

If you have links with a Brasil national, fiancee, wife etc then it is straight forward to get a bank account. I have one with Banco do Brasil and pay money into it regularly from the UK and use it when I am in Brasil.

A bit more info regarding bank accounts
Non-resident foreigners in Brazil may hold local currency accounts in Brazil, subject to Heading 1, Chapter 13, Section 1 of the International Capital and Foreign Exchange Market Regulations (Regulamento do Mercado de Câmbio e Capitais Internacionais) of the Central Bank of Brazil.

Foreigners who are temporarily resident in Brazil can hold foreign currency accounts, subject to Heading 1, Chapter 14, Section 7 of the International Capital and Foreign Exchange Market Regulations (Regulamento do Mercado de Câmbio e Capitais Internacionais) of the Central Bank of Brazil.

 

[RalphJ]

If you have links with a Brasil national, fiancee, wife etc then it is straight forward to get a bank account. I have one with Banco do Brasil and pay money into it regularly from the UK and use it when I am in Brasil.

A bit more info regarding bank accounts
Non-resident foreigners in Brazil may hold local currency accounts in Brazil, subject to Heading 1, Chapter 13, Section 1 of the International Capital and Foreign Exchange Market Regulations (Regulamento do Mercado de Câmbio e Capitais Internacionais) of the Central Bank of Brazil.

Foreigners who are temporarily resident in Brazil can hold foreign currency accounts, subject to Heading 1, Chapter 14, Section 7 of the International Capital and Foreign Exchange Market Regulations (Regulamento do Mercado de Câmbio e Capitais Internacionais) of the Central Bank of Brazil.

Being legally allowed to have a bank account and actually having one are definitely two different things in Brazil DGM. Brazilian banks stopped accepting C5 accounts around 3 years ago when the reporting requirements were made more stringent. Call Banco Central, they'll tell you, "of course you can open an account, just need a passport, proof of residence, and CPF number". Then go to the bank and tell them you want to open one.....see what they say. Then, if you like, you can even call banco central and complain that the banks are not allowing you to open a C5 account. Do you know what they'll tell you?

"That's their prerogative."

This subject has been beaten to death. Reality is a foreigner, without a permanent visa or RNE number, can't open a bank account in Brazil. I've never heard of this moneycorp. business and it very well may be true. But I can tell you that Banco Rendimento has 4 branches throughout the entire country. And 100 reais per month service charge isn't exactly cheap either. I also would wager on another thing, as we found a couple agencies that were willing to open C5 accounts and that is, once they start getting numerous requests for these accounts, sooner or later, they won't allow the opening of them anymore. And that's simply because the beaurocracy is too time consuming and costly.

 

[brackenhoe]

Hi, I emailed Moneycorp about 2 weeks ago asking to set up a Brazilian bank account and guess what! They still haven't acknowledged the email never mind opened the account!

 

[RalphJ]

Hi, I emailed Moneycorp about 2 weeks ago asking to set up a Brazilian bank account and guess what! They still haven't acknowledged the email never mind opened the account!

Welcome to Brazil!:sleep:

 

[DGM42]

Being legally allowed to have a bank account and actually having one are definitely two different things in Brazil DGM.

Well thanks for the advice MJR and all the others that say I cannot open a bank account. I must be dreamimg then when I opened mine and each time I use it. :rofl:
It says Banco do Brasil on the card and cheque book but it can't be as I am not allowed an account being a non national with no RNE only a CPF and don't live in Brasil
I pay money in regular and use the account with no problems to date - over a year now.
As I have said on many occasions - I must be one of the lucky ones. :dancing:

 

[RalphJ]

Being legally allowed to have a bank account and actually having one are definitely two different things in Brazil DGM.

Well thanks for the advice MJR and all the others that say I cannot open a bank account. I must be dreamimg then when I opened mine and each time I use it. :rofl:
It says Banco do Brasil on the card and cheque book but it can't be as I am not allowed an account being a non national with no RNE only a CPF and don't live in Brasil
I pay money in regular and use the account with no problems to date - over a year now.
As I have said on many occasions - I must be one of the lucky ones. :dancing:

Didn't you say that you got your account because of a brazilian relative?

If you have links with a Brasil national, fiancee, wife etc then it is straight forward to get a bank account. I have one with Banco do Brasil and pay money into it regularly from the UK and use it when I am in Brasil.

That is possible BUT the brazilian is the principal on the account and you are like a dependant. I had one of those the first couple years I was here, my brazilian ex-wife was the principal on the account. After I got my permanent visa then I was able to open an account in my name. I would say that's kind of unreasonable to expect large numbers of foreigners to find brazilians to be the primary on their account....wouldn't you?

Also, three years or so ago, banco do brasil made a policy to close all existing C5 accounts. I know this as I'm good friends with numerous managers and one high level executive at banco do brasil. In 2006 they closed more than 10,000 C5 accounts in Rio de Janeiro alone.

If you have an account at banco do brasil without an RNE number or your brazilian wife, fiancee, or friend as the primary on the account then you truly are lucky and don't be surprised if you wake up one day and it's closed. Not trying to rain on your parade but that's the reality.

 

[DGM42]

Didn't you say that you got your account because of a brazilian relative?



That is possible BUT the brazilian is the principal on the account and you are like a dependant. I would say that's kind of unreasonable to expect large numbers of foreigners to find brazilians to be the primary on their account....wouldn't you?

Also, three years or so ago, banco do brasil made a policy to close all existing C5 accounts. I know this as I'm good friends with numerous managers and one high level executive at banco do brasil. In 2006 they closed more than 10,000 C5 accounts in Rio de Janeiro alone.

If you have an account at banco do brasil without an RNE number or your brazilian wife, fiancee, or friend as the primary on the account then you truly are lucky and don't be surprised if you wake up one day and it's closed. Not trying to rain on your parade but that's the reality.

The account is opened in my name, my fiancee also banks with Banco do Brasil
I use the account regularly and have had no problems to date.
I live in UK and visit Brasil at least 6 times per year.
If they close it so be it, but I am fairly confident after speaking with my fiancee that will not happen. Maybe my fiancee has some high level friends/relatives as well. We shall see, seems like sour grapes to me.

 

[RalphJ]

The account is opened in my name, my fiancee also banks with Banco do Brasil
I use the account regularly and have had no problems to date.
I live in UK and visit Brasil at least 6 times per year.
If they close it so be it, but I am fairly confident after speaking with my fiancee that will not happen. Maybe my fiancee has some high level friends/relatives as well. We shall see, seems like sour grapes to me.

DGM, there's no "sour grapes" here my friend, it's a known reality. Ask JM or anyone else here that has intimate knowledge of the banking system here. I've been living here for one decade and have worked closely over the last 5 1/2 years with foreigners investing here. I have an account, numerous accounts, personal as well as business. I have a permanent visa and could become a dual citizen of brazil if I so chose. My daughter is a dual citizen and a brazilian national.

You could very well be right concerning your fiancé. If she has a friend that is the branch manager then they obviously allowed you to open an account. But that is not the norm. Matter of fact their policy since 2006 has not only been to not open C5 accounts, but actually to close the existing ones. So as I previously said, you are lucky. But don't think that's the rule and not the exception. And the same goes for all the banks here. Itaú, Bradesco, Caixa Economica, etc.

As I said before, in 2006 the reporting requirements here changed in regards to all C5 accounts and all branches that have these accounts are required to do an unbelievable amount of reporting. Matter of fact, every single transaction that is made by a C5 account has to be reported to Banco Central. I'm sure you can see the bank's dilemma. It's an absurd reality but nonetheless it's a reality. They made these new requirements because Brazil was becoming a popular spot to launder money.

I certainly hope your account stays open DGM. I'm just saying don't be surprised if it doesn't. I can put you in touch with at least a dozen english that had this very same thing happen to them. We also found a bank here, a Unibanco branch (now Itaú),that was opening these accounts. Then after they opened around 12 and the requests kept coming, they cut it off. It's simply beaurocratically impossible for a branch to have numerous C5 accounts open.

 

[debzor]

Being legally allowed to have a bank account and actually having one are definitely two different things in Brazil DGM.

Well thanks for the advice MJR and all the others that say I cannot open a bank account. I must be dreamimg then when I opened mine and each time I use it. :rofl:
It says Banco do Brasil on the card and cheque book but it can't be as I am not allowed an account being a non national with no RNE only a CPF and don't live in Brasil
I pay money in regular and use the account with no problems to date - over a year now.
As I have said on many occasions - I must be one of the lucky ones. :dancing:

It really is not rocket science to understand how you got a bank account here - I quote part of a previous post by yourself on a different thread:

"We went and got me a CPF then a declaration of residence signed and witnessed at the local government office stating my Fiancee's address as my residence"

That you have a Brazilian fiancee and have sworn, signed and have witnessed to the fact you are have a Brazilian residence slightly puts you in a different category to most others who might want to open an account, do you not think?

 

[RalphJ]

It really is not rocket science to understand how you got a bank account here - I quote part of a previous post by yourself on a different thread:

"We went and got me a CPF then a declaration of residence signed and witnessed at the local government office stating my Fiancee's address as my residence"

That you have a Brazilian fiancee and have sworn, signed and have witnessed to the fact you are have a Brazilian residence slightly puts you in a different category to most others who might want to open an account, do you not think?

He obviously doesn't get it Deb. Once again, the problem is misinformation. Just because he got an account opened doesn't mean that Brazil opens accounts for foreigners without an RNE number. You know it, I know it, and any foreigner that has came here and tried in the last 3 years knows it. There may be some exceptions, but once again, it is not the rule. I'd place a wager that if a couple dozen foreigners without RNE numbers went to his branch to open up a C5 account that they'd stop opening them, if they opened any at all. And possibly would close the existing ones.

 

[brackenhoe]

Ok, so we can beat each other up on this subject all day, the question is, when and if the Brazilian government will open up bank accounts to foreigners... well, property owning foreigners.... don't they realise in their new world of financial reality... and success, that this issue is holding their economy back.

 

[RalphJ]

Ok, so we can beat each other up on this subject all day, the question is, when and if the Brazilian government will open up bank accounts to foreigners... well, property owning foreigners.... don't they realise in their new world of financial reality... and success, that this issue is holding their economy back.

Yes, of course they realize it. And if you spend enough time here you will learn that Brazil is not serious when it comes to attracting foreign investment. Any talk of doing such is only lip service. Lula promised to reduce beaurocracy here and make it easier for foreigners to invest......he's not only not kept his promise, it's actually became worse since he took office.

 

[DGM42]

He obviously doesn't get it Deb. Once again, the problem is misinformation. Just because he got an account opened doesn't mean that Brazil opens accounts for foreigners without an RNE number. You know it, I know it, and any foreigner that has came here and tried in the last 3 years knows it. There may be some exceptions, but once again, it is not the rule. I'd place a wager that if a couple dozen foreigners without RNE numbers went to his branch to open up a C5 account that they'd stop opening them, if they opened any at all. And possibly would close the existing ones.

No MJR I do get it, you are the one making false statements that foreigners cannot open bank accounts not me. I have merely said that i have one and it works fine. The fact I have a Braisilian fiancee is not relevant to your statement or even how I got it. You make a blanket statement which is wholly incorrect and you are trying to justify it. And you are the one moaning about wrong information.
I am a foreigner not living in Brasil without an RNE, yes I have a declaration of residence which proves a base when I visit Brasil. This was what I was told to do and Banco do Brasil were happy with this.

I agree with other posts this has been done to death and yes on the whole foreigners have major problems in getting bank accounts but it is posible, that is the correct statement to make.
So I will carry on using my bank account and yes if it gets closed, this forum will be the first to know.

 

[RalphJ]

This is the last time I'll repond to you DGM about this since it's obvious for us all here that are reading our written posts that you've attempted to make generalizations concerning your particular situation which is NOT the norm here in brazil.

The policy of banks today in Brazil are to not open up bank accounts for foreigners without an RNE number, or permanent visa. Do you understand that? That is their POLICY.

Now did I say that it's IMPOSSIBLE?

No.

Is it probable for a foreigner to be able to open a bank account?

Absolutely not. Matter of fact, unless he personally knows a bank manager or is extremely good friends with a brazilian that is good friends with a bank manager that chances of a foreigner opening up a bank account here is very, very, slim. And this didn't just happen DG, this started happening back in 2006 and still continues until today. And all the guys that participate in this forum that have been here for years are well aware of this. Everyone that has experience in brazil is well aware of this. But evidently, because YOU were able to open an account because your girlfriend obviously knows someone there you think that it's possible for just anybody and that it's the policy in brazil to open C5 accounts?




Now, if you had one opened because of some sort of "amizade" or "jeitinho" that is perfectly understandable.....BUT IT IS THE EXCEPTION RATHER THAN THE RULE!

If you can't understand what I just posted above, please, call someone to read it and explain it to you.:stupid:

 

[debzor]

Ok, so we can beat each other up on this subject all day, the question is, when and if the Brazilian government will open up bank accounts to foreigners... well, property owning foreigners.... don't they realise in their new world of financial reality... and success, that this issue is holding their economy back.

It is actually quite easy, as it is already allowed under law - all they have to do is ease the regulations, which is much, much easier than changing the law.

I think you are right - property owning foreigners will be first through the door - but I am also certain it will be a double edged sword, with a tax clawback/penalty/minimum deposit or something similar!

 

[brackenhoe]

It is actually quite easy, as it is already allowed under law - all they have to do is ease the regulations, which is much, much easier than changing the law.

I think you are right - property owning foreigners will be first through the door - but I am also certain it will be a double edged sword, with a tax clawback/penalty/minimum deposit or something similar!

Hi Deb, Yes that sounds like all socialist democracies the world over, hey lets not be mean, all governments the world over. But is there a desire for this to happen coming soon, or are they going to continue ignoring these new property owning stakeholders in their economy.

 

[DGM42]

This is the last time I'll repond to you DGM about this since it's obvious for us all here that are reading our written posts that you've attempted to make generalizations concerning your particular situation which is NOT the norm here in brazil.

The policy of banks today in Brazil are to not open up bank accounts for foreigners without an RNE number, or permanent visa. Do you understand that? That is their POLICY.

Now did I say that it's IMPOSSIBLE? er Yes MJR you did an extract from one of your posts "Reality is a foreigner, without a permanent visa or RNE number, can't open a bank account in Brazil."

No.

Is it probable for a foreigner to be able to open a bank account?

Absolutely not. Matter of fact, unless he personally knows a bank manager or is extremely good friends with a brazilian that is good friends with a bank manager that chances of a foreigner opening up a bank account here is very, very, slim. And this didn't just happen DG, this started happening back in 2006 and still continues until today. And all the guys that participate in this forum that have been here for years are well aware of this. Everyone that has experience in brazil is well aware of this. But evidently, because YOU were able to open an account because your girlfriend obviously knows someone there you think that it's possible for just anybody and that it's the policy in brazil to open C5 accounts?




Now, if you had one opened because of some sort of "amizade" or "jeitinho" that is perfectly understandable.....BUT IT IS THE EXCEPTION RATHER THAN THE RULE!

If you can't understand what I just posted above, please, call someone to read it and explain it to you.:stupid:

Now did I say that it's IMPOSSIBLE? er Yes MJR you did an extract from one of your posts "Reality is a foreigner, without a permanent visa or RNE number, can't open a bank account in Brazil."

maybe you should read your own posts before you spout your miss-information.

Read my posts - I have never said it is easy and any foreigner can get a bank account. I was just trying to show that these people that make blanket staements yourself included are wrong and you should put the correct information.

I replied to a post and said that the person who has links to brasil, dual nationlaity shouldn't have a problem.

You have been moaning at other people on here for putting misleading information. You are justy as guilty - be a man and admit it, then we can all go on with our happy days. :boxing: :angel: