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Tetouan Or Saidia

Discussion in 'Morocco Property' started by redangel7861, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    I have looked at Saidia and am travelling soon to look at locations in Tetouan.

    People have different arguments for and against investing in both and some prefer one to the other. Both are situated on the Medeteranian coast and both have good investment potential. I was just wondering what the views of this forum were. Your opinions would be much appreciated.
     
  2. propertyborders

    propertyborders New Member

    They are both very good locations it depends what your reasons are for buying ,Tetouan is closer to Tangier & Ceuta i,e closer to Spain.

    Saidia on the otheir hand is a plan azur goverment backed safe investment.
     
  3. propertyborders

    propertyborders New Member

    They are both very good locations it depends what your reasons are for buying Tetouan is closer to Tangier & Ceuta i,e closer to Spain.

    Saidia on the other hand plan azur a government backed safe investment.
     
  4. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    I have a 5 to 7 year investment plan. I feel that Tetouan is being over developed (leading to saturation) and that there seems to be no logic or planning behind the developments. A lot of the builds seem to be of a lower quality of those offered in Saidia and there are no build restrictions in Tetouan. Saidia has better quality and a lot more thought and organisation behind the development. If Saidia takes off then this will have an adverse effect on Tetouan in my opinion. The life cycle and investment time frame in Tetouan is coming to an end (maybe 2-3 years max). In Saidia we are approximately 2 years from completion and we could have upto 5-8 years of solid returns in Saidia. With the Govt backing if Saidia realy takes off then it could become one of the biggest and most popular resorts in the world.
    Saidia also has a 15 year build restriction, so over saturation of the resort is very unlikely.

    Other opinions are welcome.
     
  5. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Red you pretty much echo my rationale for chosing Saidia.

    There are few developments anywhere that offer the end user experience Saidia will. The marina alone is supposed to be the biggest in the Med. Onsite large medical facility staffed by international Doctors.
    Sports and leisure complexes are many here which really is different to most developments. Couple that with a 500 shop centre which has many brands planned, plus cinemas, amphitheatres, many restaurants and bars around the marina, carrefour supermarkets, 3 golf courses and so on.

    I'm sure that this will become a magnate with few if any competitors in the Med and as you say once it's built, that's it, they will not likely extend it and anything built nearby would almost certainly not be able to compete on scale of leisure attraction encompassed
    .
    Having a commodity that's in short supply is what investment is all about. People will go out of thier way to own property / holiday here once the place opens fully.

    It seems that some investors just fail to recognise the key difference between Saidia and other largish developments. Praise Del Raise in Portugal is currently marketing property and one of the key selling points is that there is ONE hotel onsite. Another in Spain makes much of 3 hotels onsite. Saidia should have 11 which is an indication of just how different this project is.
    Thats 11 hotels providing free year round marketing for property owners!
     
  6. Jesus of nazareth

    Jesus of nazareth New Member


    ramp ramp ramp.

    Many are to sell their Saidia investment before they have to complete and for little more than they signed up for two years ago.


    Short supply. Are you having a laugh.




    Nurse, fetch the screens I am going to piss myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  7. nolu

    nolu New Member

    I have been investing in property both at home and abroad for the last 30 years. I am buying several properties in Saidia for the following reasons:

    I visited the following areas before making my decision of where to invest: Casablanca, Marrakech, Rabat, Smir, Tangiers and of course Saidia. I have always found that the best long term investments are made by trying to guage where the big money will end up.

    You only need to check out what has happened in Portugal or Spain in the last 20 years to realize that the location argument by far outweighs anything else. If you bought on Quinta da Lago in the 80's it would have been more expensive than any other development on the western side of the same coastline but the outperformance since then has been spectacular. Check out historicals in Spain.....Mallorca versus Canary Islands, Marbella versus Torremolinos. Even in the UK, you can find the same architectural style townhouses that you would find in Knightsbridge in areas like Woolwich and Lewisham but what a difference in price!!! and only a few miles in between.

    I see the arguments from the flippers regarding Agadir/Tangier versus Saidia and yes you can leverage a lot more units if all you are doing is trying to make a few quid quickly but for me, the Morocco trade is a much longer term position.

    Unfortunately the premium performance will always be upheld by locations with 'snob' value. The fact that Saidia will have the largest marina with the biggest berths on the med does it for me. If you are fortunate enough to own a sixty metre long yacht there are a very limited number of places where you can moor it....certainly wouldnt fit in Puerta Banus. This marina will attract people with enormous wealth and because there wont be the 'kiss me quick hat' and egg and chips brigade around (they will be in cheaper accomodation in Tangier/Agadir etc.), the rich and famous will feel very much at home in Saidia.

    I am banking on Saidia becoming the most upmarket resort on the Moroccan coast and if the entry level is much higher than other sites crammed with cheap properties - that suits me fine. I am not expecting to make big returns on my investment until at least 2015+ and predict that by 2020, this place will be mega.

    If I compare the villa i am buying in Saidia, the equivalent spec in Val do Lobo is roughly four times the cost. I expect this spread to narrow significantly and it wont be because the prices in Val do Lobo are coming down.

    My advice would be to look very carefully at the type of property you are buying versus supply of that property throughout the resort. I made a judgement that there are not enough larger villas being built in Saidia. I have a four bed front line golf on a good sized plot of 1100+ m2. Most of the villas are 2 or 3 bedrooms only therefore any family looking for the extra bedroom will only have a handful to choose from.

    Rentals: I have visited the site a few times now and cannot see how the available rentals will be able to sate the demand. I see the attraction of Morocco and in particular, Saidia creating huge demand on a global basis as it is just a little bit more exotic than Spain!!!

    If you take the rental demand in Spain that is spread between hundreds of thousands of units and make an assumption that a small fraction of those renters will try Morocco instead, there just aren't going to be enough properties to go around.
     
  8. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Nolu, you make a compelling rational argument and some points I had not considered.

    Jesus of Nazareth asserts that Saidia is nothing special and out on a limb. On the second point, Saidia's isolation appeals very much to me, as does the fact everything is on the one site even down to a fair sized dedicated medical facility.
    Having a villa on a development that rubs shoulders with scruffy poor residential or industrial areas would not appeal to me at all. I want to escape to a little peace of heaven isolated with its own beach as far as possible from every day Morocco. That may seem insensitive to some, but when it comes to investing hard earned cash I know what I want. The local town is being transformed and I imagine will itself become an upmarket boutique kind of place.

    I am not interested in flipping. Usually only small net returns are possible anyway, so just not worth the bother.
    I'm in this for the long term, in fact I can't imagine ever selling as the utility value for me (and my renters) is just so high.

    People talk to me about £500-£700 per month rent in high season for a golf 3 bed villa with pool. They may be correct initially but once this place gets known I am fairly certain premium rents will apply.

    Why do I pay £1500+ per week for a modest 3 bed villa in Menorca or Sardinia with nearest proper beach miles away, no golf, no facilities (just a crappy mini market and 1 ok restaurant), when I could for the same money get an on golf villa with a massive beach, huge world class marina and boundless leisure facilities?

    Some people say that the going rate for a modest Spannish golf villa is about £5 - £700 per week (Polaris world) however they are not in any sense comparing like with like. Such developments have very modest facility ranges, certainly no giant marina, just a handfull of shops and restaurants, no on site beach - just no comparison.

    As you say the supply of Saidia standard resorts will be low, in fact I would say NO other development can match it for facilities all in one site. Royal Maroc Sport, whilst interesting and clearly upmarket I still do not see the end user experience comming even close and there is no giant modern marina either.

    "BUT IT'S MOROCCO, IT'S NOT SPAIN"
    This is a mute point. The end user will not make a quality / price distinction as long as the experience is good. People said Caribean islands were povery stricken so investing there was a mugs game, yet now there are hundreds of expensive enclaves OFTEN ISOLATED!!



    JESUS - I am not ramping I am trying to help potential Morocco investors see the true extent of the choice they face.
     
  9. Jesus of nazareth

    Jesus of nazareth New Member

    You try to make a point about being remote, it isnt. You can see Saidia beach front from Algeria. If you want remote why go to Algeria especially in todays climate. With the other five plan Azur resorts on the west coast where you can get a real taste of Morocco, what makes you think Saidia is going to be this incredible success. We dont know if the budget airlines are going to fly direct from the UK. You talk about a long term investment plan, keep hold of any property long enough and you will make money.

     
  10. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    Jesus.

    All points are welcome - what are the other Plan Azur developments that you mention on the west coast?

    Thanks

    Red
     
  11. Jesus of nazareth

    Jesus of nazareth New Member

  12. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    JESUS.

    Thanks for the link. May I ask why you are so against the Saidia development. Do you have knowledege of the area?? Terrorism is something that will effect all of us. I work in the City of London (square mile), at first it was the IRA then Al-Queda. If it's not one thing then it's another. People just get on with their lives.

    I'm sure as the resort develops so will the travel infrastructure. Out of all of the plan Azur projects, Saidia is by far the largest and the one that will have most of the marketing budget and Kings weight behind it. I believe it will become the Jewel of Morocco.

    Again it's all about opinions, and all opinions are welcome.
     
  13. Jesus of nazareth

    Jesus of nazareth New Member

    I'm not against it, but I don't think it will be as popular as investors are hoping. I base this on three things.

    1. Too far out of the way. People will want to experience Morocco when they visit, otherwise they may as will go anywhere with these facilities for a holiday.

    2. Too near Algeria.

    3. This is probably the most important and has been the least talked about. The southern resorts stay warm and sunny all year round, this is why the likes of Tenerife are so popular, although I'm not suggesting that I would holiday there. The winter beach holiday is a huge factor and is something you will get in southern Morocco but not in Saidia.
     
  14. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    Again you raise some valid points.

    In my opinion Saidia will cater more for the afluent European market (facilaties included will back me up on that). Areas like Tangiers and Tetouan is more geared towards the Moroccan market. Hence, in my opinion capital appreciation in these locations will be restricted to the income and spending power of the middle class Moroccan. Saidia, being geared towards the European market, where the average person has more wealth, will thus have the potential to increase in value at much higher rates. As it begins to compete with the international holiday destinations, the wealthy from around the world be be attracted to Saidia, more so that the over built locations of Tetouan and Tangier. The other Azur projects are also great, but I don't believe they will have the appeal of Saidia.
     
  15. redangel7861

    redangel7861 New Member

    Tangiers - Tangiers was pinning it's hopes on capturing the Expo 2012. Before the decision I had reserved an apartment on the Tangier Boulavard project (as had many others). After Tangeir lost the bid there were multiple cancellations on many apartments in the region. I am tempted by the cosmopolitan nature of the city, but am wary that the area will be over developed (having the Dubai effect). I am considering investing in ane w 5* city/beach front development with an artificial lake in Tangiers (released yesterday). So my choices are Saidia - 5* 2 bed Front life golf or Tangier - 5* 2 bed city/beach apartments. I know the population has gone up 400% in Tangiers over the past decade and that international business is moving into the areas, so both propositions seem tempting. Tangeirs is probably more low risk as it is already a developed market. Siaidia, higher risk but if it takes off wil be explosive.

    Decisions...Decisions....
     
  16. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Red

    I did carefully consider the Plan Azure resort 'Port Lixus' at Larache on the Atlantic. It will have extensive facilities and be aimed very much at the upper end according to my research in 06/07. At the time of checking the prices seemed higher on a like for like basis.

    I opted for Saidia as there are more facilities, a much better marina and it's in the Med' which I prefer personally given the warmer, calmer sea and less wind.


    Jesus - it's obvious the budget airline's will fly to Oujda, at the very least the King will ensure this even if it requires sweeteners. He would'nt have commisioned a complete overhaul and massive extension to 25 hubs and brand new connecting road without good reason, not to mention the extensive modernisation of the town of Saidia.

    It is reasonable to suppose the 11 international hotel brands will have done thier homework in this regard.
    Even without budget airlines I believe the development will be a sucess.


    Algeria / Terrorism; Of course I realised at the very outset, the proximity needed consideration. In the end I consider the risk to be low. People after the London bombings said Brit terrorists would attack swimming pools and other UK soft targets. It would appear these sentiments were overdone as is always the case with pessimistic thinkers.
    Motivated terrorists have had ample opportunity in Dubai to attack Westerners in thier midst yet so far nothing. Same goes for countless other locations around the world. There has been ample soft target opportunity in Tunisia for example.

    Muslim people are turning thier backs on extremists, even Hisbollah are getting increasingly chill sentiment from the Palenstinian populace.
    Fundamentalist old men with beards, biggotry and myths bring thier people nothing but misery. They do not put food on the people's tables, they do not bring natural justice for women, they do not build schools and hospitals. Extremeists merely offer division, oppresion, yet supreme privelege's for men (able to whore thier daughters at age 10 for money as shown on BB2 recently), just because they are. err, men!
    These extremists have nothing to offer the muslim majority and will not prevail.


    I, like most people just get on with life and have no time to sit about wringing my hands over something that is thousands of times less likely than a Human being struck by lightening.

    If it happens, so be it. Life goes on and people will continue to holiday there just as they did in Turkey and Egypt after attacks. It would appear the public have short memories. You know I find many people are not even aware of the worldwide credit crunch!
     
  17. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Jesus

    I had considered the warmer weather of the more Southerly developments, however the flip side is that they can get hotter in summer, perhaps too hot for comfort.

    Portugal is pretty chilly and damp in winter yet some golf developments still remain busy. Saidia will certainly offer warmer winter weather than Portugal so I think the balance all round is about right.

    The isolation factor again is a benefit and in any event Ive been on Moroccan forums where Moroccans themselves say there ios plenty to see in the general area and Saidia town is going through a renaisance and provide enough culture (probably faux to an extent) for the average tourist. Lets face it many of us have done the trecking round castles and markets bit many times, and quiet often what you really desire is rest and pampering rather than gazing at the attempts of past ego maniancs to leave thier mark on the world.

    For me in any event our real heritage is the natural world not piles of bricks or recent 'Human' history as we have only been around less than 1% of Earths age. My atoms are merely coallescing as me for a temporary period. In the past they will have coalasced into other organisms - I'm interestd in studying this above else.
     
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