Suggestions Please

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by No_Bull***t, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Hi,

    Have been lurking for a while and am going to Natal in December, looking to see what Investments I can find and would be interested in hearing from others who have already been and who have a clear strategy (including the exit) for their investment.

    Please do not reply with websites that purely list prices of off plan developments and offer buy and hold strategies.

    Regards,

    Chris
     
  2. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Do you have a budget in mind?
     
  3. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Hi Rob,

    Budget is irrelevant.

    What I am looking for is an INVESTMENT, i.e. something that is producing a return, for this, money can easily be found.
     
  4. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member


    We have investments from 50k up to 30 million USD.
    This is the reason we ask for a budget, otherwise we are just showing you things that you are not interested in, which is of course a waste of both our time.

    Regards,
    Rob.
     
  5. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Yes, I understand that you want a figure but what I want you to appreciate is that I am looking for an investment to make money, to do this, one must have a clear exit strategy, I can see property and land on your site and predictions of rising prices, which in my opinion are all effectively a form of gambling. I appreciate that there will be some risk but seek to minimize it.

    As you have investments from "50k up to 30 million USD", which would you say are your best in terms of return, length of investment, risk and why ?

    To benefit in money terms (rather than holiday use), there needs to be either regular positive cashflow i.e. rentals minus outgoings (the rentals being real rather than giving you your own money back from an initial overpayment on purchase) or capital appreciation - which is proved on sale of the investment or comparables,
    so :
    Have there been any resales of property / land that you had originally offered - do you have details ? - Might make a good feature on your site to entice more people.

    As I said in my initial post, I am interested in how people who are actually buying, plan to benefit from their investment.

    Regards,

    Chris
     
  6. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Hi Chris,

    It sounds like you are just after general information. Sorry but this week and next are not the weeks where I have time to respond in detail.

    Regards,
    Rob.
     
  7. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Hi Rob,

    I have said what information I am after, in your case, it's not general it is crucial information to be able to make an investment decision for genuine real buyers, I have asked for specifics and I look forward to your reply (giving examples of actual money made) when you do have more time..

    In the meantime, is there really no one else that is investing with a clear strategy to profit from their investment ? - I am not knocking people who are purely looking for a holiday home - I have them too but I'm not looking for another at the moment.

    Regards,

    Chris
     
  8. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Chris,

    Sorry, by general I meant not a specific type of investment.

    We do have that information, you can get it from our salespeople, if you send me your number I will have someone call you.

    Regards,
    Rob.
     
  9. PAUL-brasil

    PAUL-brasil New Member

    Hi Chris

    Thats a very good question and i dont think your going to get a real answer for that one, the only answer youll get is a speculative strategy especially with Off plans and Natal in general as you dont know exactly what your going to get for your money from what you have bought, how much capital growth when its final built and how well the area does in tourism for income gains.

    What i use is still far not a clear strategy, but i simply just use my own theories from what i see and learn from looking at the investments at all angles clearly and logic sense to help minimise risks.

    I have had a resale property in Ceara for just over 18month and put some money into it just in the same way investors have been in the property boom in the UK (up until recently of cause), and according to a builder over there who knows the market very well and of cause assuming that it can sell because there is no boom in brazil yet, then im around a 80% gain in capital Reais before tax and but after all expenses eg house keepers wages, my flights & expenses, extra furniture etc.

    Regards
    Paul
     
  10. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Hi Paul,

    Given the thread so far, I think it is unlikely I will get an answer as far as any real proof of actual resales & income etc, if it was available I would think that by publishing it, would only make people more keen to buy, so if it isn't made available ....

    Anyway thanks for your own thoughts, they are more like what I was trying to get, i.e. bought at a low price due to requiring work and profiting from that, in addition to any change in the market.

    From what you're saying you've not gone for a recent development, but have bought in an existing established area ? Who will your resale be to - locals ? Did you look at many opportunities & how many times have/had you visited prior to finding what you wanted ?

    For anyone interested, once I've been, I will be happy to share my thoughts and let you know what I find.

    Anyone else ?

    Regards,

    Chris
     
  11. wolfgang

    wolfgang New Member

    Creating wealth through property in Brazil

    Chris,
    I have been researching the market and am presently compiling an investment strategy with many such factors uppermost;especially the managed risk reduction aspect.I am now at an advanced stage
    .
    If you would care to pm me,we can exchange ideas.In its current format, it is the exclusive preserve of the heavyweight entrepreneur,though i am considering a number of innovative permutations which will make the investment more generally accessible. :)
     
  12. PAUL-brasil

    PAUL-brasil New Member

    Hi Chris
    Thats right my property is 15yr old quality built but with needed modernising which is now done, I writen alot more detail about this and other things in general in other threads, but if you click on my name it should give you the optionto read all my threads instead of you having to search through everything, I ve only been on here only nearly 3weeks myself so shouldnt be that many.

    Yes i looked at many many different opertunities which is important as you should make many comparisments, i looked all around R G DE Norte and Ceara and weighed up all the areas before even deciding on Offplans or resales or the exact areas, I visited both areas Twice before making a purchase, and my property was based on capital gains bought at a price which i could afford without having to borrow (£40K) at the time as im still young and far from rich so gettin it right was very important, so in a nut shell its an area with no real poverty around it and at one of my theorys of a ripple effect from the success from the town boardering, Cumbuco, which had seen very high price inceases over the previous 4 years and with that town growing into the area where my property is. Before I even went to brazil i did so much research on the areas and spoke to many agents just to weigh them up really. Within my first 2 visits to both areas it was so hetic visiting everywhere i could, looking at so many developments and meeting so many agents, developers and even lawyers. And still enjoyed all the night life on offer meeting many of the local people, basically I didnt sleep while i was there.

    Now i have been to Natal a total of 3 times (not being in a year) and Fortaleza 4 times last there in July/Aug. In november the 8th Im flying again to Natal again so will report back on finding in comparision of last year and previous and while there of course will also be flying internally to Fortaleza. When your there in Dec i do recommend you also go to Ceara if you have the time to make better comparisons.
    Yeah my resell market would be on both the gringos and the internal market as one of the reasons why i prefer Ceara for now over R G D Norte is based on its much stronger market internally.

    Hope this makes sense as im half pissed while writing this! Any more questions just fire them at me,

    Regards
    Paul
     
  13. marcopolo

    marcopolo New Member

    very easy

    hello chris, you still want to go to natal in december and invest there? why natal? i can give few ideas.
     
  14. No_Bull***t

    No_Bull***t New Member

    Hi marcopolo,
    Yes, will be in Natal during December, going to have an initial look around, what would you suggest and why and have you bought (or sold) anything there - or anywhere else in Brazil ?
    Regards,
    Chris
     
  15. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Hi Chris- I live and work in Natal, and the reason you will not get too many responses on proven gains on purchases and re-sales made is because the majority of the developments sold off plan are not yet ready. There are a number of strategies you can use, and one of the options is to buy land and do a project yourself. Alternatively my own strategy anywhere is to seek the exit route, and the best way to exit is to be able to sell to 100% of the potential market- ie to Brasilians as well, whether it be well off Paulistas or local people. I am here till 20th Dec then back again 14th Jan after visiting the UK and a week in Spain.
     
  16. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    It is really busy at present, and there is an interesting deal in Buzios for a relativley small project targeted at Brasilian and foreigners alike that could interest you. My architect is preparing an outline study at present. there is a new off-plan product in Tirol, Natal which is aimed at the pure investor, for re-sale or rental in the same way as a buy-to-let in the UK. Prices are generally lower for this type of product because it is not aimed at the tourist market.
     
  17. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Other options are to look at Aparthotel deals that have a rental pool system. These are available off-plan (in construction as well) or as resale- you just need to know that the pool system is operating well. These generally give you the option to use them yourself for holidays, up to 5 weeks, without penalty on income. Let me know when you are here if you would like to meet for a "without obligation" meeting. My skype name is the same as on here. (sorry about split post - I am having trouble posting lengthy messages!)
     
  18. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    What sort of rentals do you expect in Buzios?
     
  19. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    These properties in Buzios will be targetting the home market. They will not be aimed at the European absent landlords. They will be priced accordingly. Once the architect and the engineer have sorted out design , numbers, and construction costs they then can be priced. Have you any idea how much some of the closed condominium estates fetch for a house of say 200m²-250m²? These houses in Buzios will probably be around 150m², 3 bed units, and when the sums are done will probably be priced around 300-350,000 R$. Depending on the amenities provided, they could be lower. Incidentally do you have any numbers for rentals on the Litoral Norte or Litoral Sul? I only have figures for aparthotels that are operating in Natal.
     
  20. Navi

    Navi New Member

    Strategy

    The best way to get out is correctly entering. It will be easier if you organize a vehicle out of Brazil, like in BVI, to serve your investment. When deciding to leave, just sell the shares of the investment vehicle, saving some capital gain taxes.

     
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