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Salvador full report

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by Golfingworld, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    I wouldn't give you tuppence for Salvador as it is worn out, scruffy and clogged with traffic..the airport is a long way from town and there are beaches which have seen better days...except perhaps for Itapoan which is well north of the city. Going north of Salvador towards Costa de Sauipe is a different story, the beaches are magnificent, new developments are stylish, it is quiet and seems safe. Praia del Forte is very well done but expensive in brazilian terms, European prices to eat and drink. I went to see a development at Imbassai which is being build by a UK developer. As it happens our guide couldnt find the exact spot as to where it would be but we got the gist. This site would be for very specific needs as there is no real village and little to do, the beach is magnificent and as quiet places go it will be good. The development is cheap and prices will surely rise in line with P do F. The road to get there from the airport is good but it wont be cheap as taxis have a closed market. But there is no question that this will be a good place to be in the future..the question is how long..my guess 5/7 years. Once again it was seen that fixing up 2nd hand properties is the route to go as they are cheaper than new developments and can yield good profit once re-conditioned. Praia do Forte is expensive and you my as well in Europe if you want capital gain and ease of travel.
     
  2. MDV

    MDV New Member

    Think you need to go home mate, if you ever left?

    I for one am sick of your derogatory opinions of everywhere you profess to have been in Brazil, personally I dont believe you have been in any of these places.
    Your stupid remarks about buying and renovating second hand homes is laughable if it was not so serious that some folk might even think that is feasable.
    Maybe if you could put your alter ego to one side long enough to think why developers are building enclosed condo style developements you would realise that there is a reason these stand alone houses are so cheap, not that condos are so expensive, even apartments are more expensive than stand alone houses in Brazil......does this ring any bells inside your well travelled bonce.
    You are not giving a fair and balanced view on anything, you want cheap, so if Brazil is too expensive for you, try turning over another stone to live under somewhere else.
     
  3. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    I really don't care if you think I have been there or not. Why is it so laughable to buy a second hand home at 25% less than the ridiculous prices developers are charging to be 30km from nowhere? If you study the market in Natal for example, I saw 2 four bed houses last week which were 30% cheaper than any of the so called "condo style developments". My fair and balanced view is equally balanced to the claptrap that is written on many of the websites offering properties in RG. Just read them, I read 6 sites tonight that said Lagoa do Coelho is 35 mins from Natal, it is not. It also saod Thomas Coke fly twice a week from the UK (LGW), they do not. If people want to delude themselves or be deluded, that's fine by me, but like you I am free to pass an opinion. What is your view on Salvador and Praia do Forte, or do you only have views on my views?
     
  4. MDV

    MDV New Member

    OK here are the ‘facts’ once and for all to balance this debate on which type of property you should ‘invest’ in.GW is of the opinion that every property developer in Brazil is only trying to rip you off, and would have you buy a second hand home instead, at what he describes as value for money.
    With a reputable developer you will get a brand new home, built to the highest possible standards with the best materials available, and by a professional construction company. Most will have European standard finishing’s and fixtures, things we take for granted like running hot water, electrical systems that function not shock, secure environment, properly managed rental system, high potential for capital growth. Priced at market value with considerable saving when buying off plan, this is irrefutable, regardless of what others say on this forum, it is proven and I CAN supply proof. The most important one of all, a second home that will be available, clean and functional when you arrive to take your well earned holiday.
    On the other hand you can buy a pre owned house, from your taxi driver, his aunt, cousin or grandmother, or even a Brazilian estate agent, or his/her relatives, makes no difference. What you will get at the savings suggested by GW is, a house built to no particular standard, by people with no particular skills but know how to get things to ‘work’, usually only for a limited period, the bricklayer is also the electrician, plumber and architect, amongst others.
    The standard of finishing’s will be on the low side of your current garden shed, with probably bare tile ceilings, i.e. no lining below the tiles so when it rains the accumulated debris gets knocked down into your house, and the rain eventually penetrates the tiles and starts to drip inside, this is not considered a problem to the local people.
    Then you arrive for your holiday and spend your whole 2 weeks repairing all the leaks in the sub standard plumbing system, replacing the broken tiles in the roof and contracting the neighbours son to fix the wiring because the lights no longer work, then finding out he doesn’t really have any idea what he is doing, but needs the work! When eventually you get all the electric system to work, you then head off to buy all your electro domestic goods again because while you were home in the UK a) your house was robbed because you had no ‘live in’ to protect it, or b) your house was robbed BY the ‘live in’ you HAD to protect it.
    Now you can make your mind up if it is worth spending the extra 10% - 25% , again fact and can be proven, or if you like a challenge and DIY go with GW and buy second hand.
     
  5. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Where will all the builders come from at these developments, Europe? Where will the materials come from? How may European site managers will be employed on each site?When you arrive at this super duper modern "European" constructed development, who cleans and checks the acidity of the pool, a European? Where do you go shopping for food? When you want a night out, where do you go? What are the local restaurant prices, European? Will this holiday be a comparitive price to an all-inclusive hotel/flight deal? Why would there be significant capital growth when the whole coast for 50km is being swallowed up by new European style developments? How do all these owners and renters get there? What will they pay to get there? When they achieve their rental objectives how do they bank the money? Why is the mediterranean from Port Bou to Porto swamped with these type of developments that can't be sold if this policy, is so successful? If the Med at 3 hours from most parts in Europe can't get it right, why should Brazil? Why on earth would 15,000 dwellings in NE brazil, in an area with no infrastructure, massively rise in price when there isn't the flight capacity to get people there at reasonable prices? This is all based on supposition, there can't be any fact as in NE Natal nothing is started, let alone finished. People will make up their own mind alright, you have your view I have mine, sensible people will consider the pro's and con's. Just read all the websites, everything is overstated on the positive side, including the prices.
     
  6. MDV

    MDV New Member

    Who said anything about European site managers or European materials, only you, as usual deflect the argument from the subject matter into your usual rants about flight availability and comparisons with Spain.
    Just explain why buying a second hand home built by Jose Blogs is a better proposition to one built by a reputable construction company, I HAVE EXPLAINED WHY IN MY OPINION IT IS NOT.Furthermore my claims to rises in value are not based on supposition, but on pure provable FACTS, something you are very short on in your condemnation of Brazil and everything Brazilian, except of course Ponta Negra!
    I wonder why that is? You maybe have a reason for promoting one of the worst adverts for Natal, I think you are maybe a closet "bogus workman" in the ponta negra area renovating and selling second hand homes with your Brazilian partner.....Mmmmm the plot thickens.
     
  7. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    With a reputable developer you will get a brand new home, built to the highest possible standards with the best materials available, and by a professional construction company.

    Now who is generalising and sweeping stements? Please explain in more detail, as your inference is that Brazilians don't build to the highest possible standard..this must be your inference. So, are you going to import Europeans to build for you and import European materials? How are you going to build properties to a European standard but at Brazilian prices, with imported labour and imported materials? What is your magic formula. How many European site agents, QS, supervisors, specifiers will there be?
    There are lots of very cheap local homes available at lesser prices that need fixing up, that is fact not fiction. There is a market to get a property in a better location (Natal/Ponta Negra) and fix these much cheaper than to pay excessive prices for a plot 50km from anywhere. The high price of these developments is justified by alleged building standards, as you are trying to claim. But the reality is that you will have to use local labour and materials, so it is about how these plots are managed and built. So, maybe one or two Europeans are going to refresh the whole local building style, experience and skill, which you claim is very poor. It may be poor, you may be correct, but sending a couple of guys over from Europe may not get the improvements you claim and will it justify a premium price in poorly located out of town areas..this is the question. Add to this, administrative difficulties such as Banking, receiving rents and no local infrastructure why should these prices rise more so soon and why if tourists cannot get there cheaply will there be an excess demand to inflate rents and values? It is a whole package not just one claim that you can build better than locals. Will there be a dual market..one price for Brazilian built homes and one for alleged European styel homes..this is what you are trying to create. My view is that it is a false market, being falsely created and hence there will be no substance to it...just as there is now on the mediterranean. Every buyer has their own objectives and motivation, much as I may make sweeping statements at my end of the spectrum, you too make sweepeing statements at your end..the buyers will make up their own mind based on these factors and views. I sense that I am under attack as I have highlighted the downside and nobody selling really wants this view to be published. Why, because everyting is over cooked and there is a definite discomfort when this over cooking is exposed.
     
  8. ukjoanie

    ukjoanie New Member

    Call it simplistic, but I believe the main reason that houses are cheaper to buy than condos, is that houses are simply just not safe.

    In Fortaleza,N.E. Brazil for example you can buy a house cheaply with amazing views, but nobody feels safe in a house.

    There is too much crime, hence people want the security that condos offer, with security guards at the doors.
     
  9. PAUL-brasil

    PAUL-brasil New Member

    I argee with all the points made, but we cant say Brazil is just like this as it is so diverse like most countries. I have seen fantastic Villas at high standards but in poor areas so safety an issue, also seen poorer quality in good save areas where there is no poverty or crime near by, and of cause seen good quality in great areas at second hand. My property is in a good area but at a good standard from 15years ago hence it had no earth in the electrics and no electric shower but all else at good bricked standard, (as i also took my friend with me for extra advice on build who works in construction with before i bought it)

    I think alot of Brazilians builders are of cause bluffing it cause just need work, but there are builders, joiners, acheictecs, constructions companies with good educations and skills too with no need for european influence.

    There are 170million in Brazil surely not everyone is the same. Also there are fantastic apartments 10year old plus for example in beach areas in prime city locations built by Brazilians which is as good as anything in Europe with great attention to detail and at better prices than off plan and of cause with the commanual security and can make much better rental straight away.

    Hi MDV, dont get me wrong i m not taking sides just because i did things my way using re sales because i agree too with most you say as i have even experienced lots of hassles this way aswell, and i do think alot of new development area great and some definatly still worth the extra price if you have more money. True also i think about Ponta negra being a bad advert for Natal although it does get the tourest still at the moment.

    My point is that they is good and bad in both so do lots of homework on it, dont dive in and think very very carefully about location as that is the most import factor i think.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2007
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