Problems Getting Refund Following Cancellation

[Peter Mitry]

The problem is Sue that under the terms of their agreement with the Developer they were probably entitled to their commission once the contract had been signed and the 30 or 40% had been paid. This means that 'legally' they are under no obligation to refund your money. Your best chance is to appeal to their 'moral' obligation which may mean you will be better negotiating with them and reaching an amicable settlement.

 

[queenie40something]

Hi Peter - I think that was Sues point that they are taking the commission when she did not sign a contract. So where does she stand in this case.

 

[Peter Mitry]

If she did not sign a contract then normally the agent would not have been paid. I have NEVER accepted money from a client; it is the Developer who pays after the contract is signed. However, I know some agents who prefer to take money up front to make sure they get their commission regardless. This is deplorable and if that is the situation with Sue then she should take whatever action she feels appropriate. The bottom line is no contract, no commission because the sale never took place.

 

[lovesquadsue]

The problem is Sue that under the terms of their agreement with the Developer they were probably entitled to their commission once the contract had been signed and the 30 or 40% had been paid. This means that 'legally' they are under no obligation to refund your money. Your best chance is to appeal to their 'moral' obligation which may mean you will be better negotiating with them and reaching an amicable settlement.

HI Peter - thing is we never signed a contract! I have tried since last November to appeal to their nice nature but this has failed! My solicitor is looking at now whether we need to sue the solicitor as he shouldnt have released the money to the developer or the agent as we didnt sign the contract or if we can go directly to the agent - he thinks we may be able to do this because of some of the written correspondence I have from them.... its just a waiting game at the moment!

 

[Peter Mitry]

Best of luck with this Sue; sounds lack a massive 'c*** up' all round. No one should have touched your money until contracts had been signed and no lawyer should have released funds to either an agent or a Developer. Was this a UK lawyer?

 

[lovesquadsue]

Best of luck with this Sue; sounds lack a massive 'c*** up' all round. No one should have touched your money until contracts had been signed and no lawyer should have released funds to either an agent or a Developer. Was this a UK lawyer?

Unfortunately not - he is an Egyptian Lawyer who lives in the UK but it not a member of the uk law society - he was but his membership expired a while ago and was never renewed...... Yes yo are defo right - a massive balls up on everyones part - including ours for being too trusting of the agent!

 

[Emu49]

Yours is a srange tell. We know that El Riad paid up, but the agent, has not. I just don't think its so simple as not signing the contract. I think that they can argue that by paying the 40%, you wanted to proceed. Verbal agreement followed by the action of paying the deposit. It looks tricky. You just have to decide if you will spend more money with the solicitor chasing the commission. I think your case proves that all the people that says its easier and better to go with a UK developer and agent are not right. I think it was a Egyptian developer and estate agent, you will have got your money by now.

You still have not told us the name of the uk agent

 

[realestatemart]

Yours is a srange tell. We know that El Riad paid up, but the agent, has not. I just don't think its so simple as not signing the contract. I think that they can argue that by paying the 40%, you wanted to proceed. Verbal agreement followed by the action of paying the deposit. It looks tricky. You just have to decide if you will spend more money with the solicitor chasing the commission. I think your case proves that all the people that says its easier and better to go with a UK developer and agent are not right. I think it was a Egyptian developer and estate agent, you will have got your money by now.

You still have not told us the name of the uk agent

good comment Emu we hope he give us more information

 

[Peter Mitry]

Sorry Emu, I totally disagree; the money was paid to the lawyer in 'good faith' as a stakeholder until all contractual issues were resolved and the client signed the contract. Until that point there is no contract and the money should have remained in escrow.

 

[RedSeaVision.com]

If she did not sign a contract then normally the agent would not have been paid. I have NEVER accepted money from a client; it is the Developer who pays after the contract is signed. However, I know some agents who prefer to take money up front to make sure they get their commission regardless. This is deplorable and if that is the situation with Sue then she should take whatever action she feels appropriate. The bottom line is no contract, no commission because the sale never took place.

I agree with you Peter completely. If a contract was never signed, the agent should have been paid their commission.

 

[Aegean]

Totally agree with peter on this - Name and shame the agent if he doesn't pay the commission back to you.

 

[lovesquadsue]

oh i will name and shame dont you worry - i dont care if we have to spend thousands ruining their business - i will do it. Its the principle of the whole thing that bothers me more than anything.
Me and my husband run our own business and if we treated our customers like this we would be in court in a flash! It seems bizarre to me that in our line of business something as simple as fitting a new front door is covered by all sorts of government rules and regulations and you have to provide deposit protection insurance to your customers etc... but a trade that involves much larger sums of money etc dont need to comply with anything......
If the agent did the decent thing and opened negociations with us regarding the refund this would be acceptable. I am not unreasonable and even gave them the option of negociating a canx fee but they werent interested - pure greed on their part.

 

[Emu49]

Peter, I hope that you are right. As the man was not in fact a british lawyer, as not member of the Law Society and also not an estate agent, I think it will be hard to make him liable for releasing the money. Trying to hold him accountable to professional standards may be asking too much. A normal person will argue that they only released it because the buyers gave him the ok and once the 40% was paid he was required to pay the commission.

Its all interesting, but I think that Lovesquadsue that you are currently only using the forum to put pressure on the agent. You are not prepared to name as you are using this as a lever. Someone could be using this same agent and have the same problems as you. So I think that its only fair to name the agent. I understand why you are reluntant to name. You fear that this may be the final excuse not to pay. However, I think that the opposite is true. Once the agent is name, you will find that other people will put pressue on them. As no matter the rights and wrongs of the lawyer, there is no excuse to hold on to commission for an apartment that they did not sale.

I wish you the best. Just don't throw good money after bad.

 

[Peter Mitry]

Emu49 is probably right Sue; in your position I would probably set aside the commission as a justifiable loss and set about causing maximum damage to this guy. If you do it well enough he may just return your commission to shut you up. And hey, if he doesn't, just watch others pick up on the story and bury him! The internet is a powerful tool.

 

[realestatemart]

Emu49 is probably right Sue; in your position I would probably set aside the commission as a justifiable loss and set about causing maximum damage to this guy. If you do it well enough he may just return your commission to shut you up. And hey, if he doesn't, just watch others pick up on the story and bury him! The internet is a powerful tool.

I tottaly upport this opinion Peter its best way

 

[Emu49]

Lovequadsue is clearly thinking of the best way forward. My real concern in the situation is that this agent is probably well known and still selling El Riad properties. It will be a shame that given the choice of agents selling, people may use someone who refuses to return commissionwhen they never made a sale.

 

[queenie40something]

Hi Sue - was wondering how things were progressing and have you had any further joy?

Regards

Alison

 

[lovesquadsue]

No joy as yet - my solicitor is still dealing with it although i might need to enlist the help of an egyptian lawyer as well as my solicitor is looking at a case against the lawyer we used but there are questions as to whether this would have to be done in a court in Egypt ... nightmare really!

 

[realestatemart]

No joy as yet - my solicitor is still dealing with it although i might need to enlist the help of an egyptian lawyer as well as my solicitor is looking at a case against the lawyer we used but there are questions as to whether this would have to be done in a court in Egypt ... nightmare really!

who was the lawyer in Egypt as tink you should warn all forum members from him
I feel so sorry for your situation and wish i could help you
Regards
GEorge

 

[queenie40something]

Hi Sue - really sorry to hear you havent got any further - just a thought but may now be worth having a word with Zeiad??