Oasis Beach & Golf Owners

[Shadow]

Hi suzywongwong,

Just by posting on here at the moment to see if there is any interest

 

[Lee Filkins]

subject

To flip in an emerging market is a risky game. It seams to me that half the buyers are there to flip similar types of properties. You are competing with the developers who have a larger budget and marketing availability. Not to forget in the mean time new & more snazzy developments are added on to the market.

 

[Investy]

Flipping is very difficult now a days what with the credit crunch and so much choice. I think you will make a lot more money if you sell once the site is being fully used by tourists.

 

[Lee Filkins]

subject

Investy: I agree with you. Flipping is never easy credit crunch or not.

 

[Moo]

The Palms at Oasis

WARNING RE SUPERIOR;

I purchased a LeJardinDeFleur product via Superior, and now Im so glad I did not buy thier Oasis product, here's why;

Yesterday I spoke with them about why they never update the 'build progress' photos on thier website and this is the appauling response I got;

"The business owner has no interest anymore as the company is being split up and sold into small parcels".
I pointed out this was a very unsatisfactory attitude to which the staff member had no answer.

RE TAX INCREASE; Lejardindefleur I am told are going to foot the bill for the Tax increase. I would urge you buyers to act as a group to ensure Superior also absorb this cost.

If it is true the business owner has no interest any longer I would also urge you iron this out right now. Imagine trying to get build snaggs rectified by a company that have no interest in client service!

I also note thier 2 so called aftersales people have left.

I have just been informed by my solicitors in Spain that the developers have gone into receivership and the chance of getting any money back is poor. They have also told me that they have around 100 customers in the same situation. Has anyone else received this information

 

[Grim Reaper]

Interesting Blog. I wonder how you spoke with anyone from Superior as they went into Administration precisely a year ago and closed down. They did not own Oasis, no more than they owned Jardin de Fleur, where you say you have bought.

I am not sure of your concerns with Oasis as you say you are buying Jardin de Fleur. I would respectfully suggest you worry about them and maybe ask to see their building licences!!!
Grim Reaper

 

[Moo]

Oasis

Dear Grime reaper,

I purchased through Superior. I purchased a townhouse on The Palms. The deal was done back in December 2006. To date I have paid about £35.000 plus solicitor fees of €1,465. Superior recomended I use Legalex Group in Marbella. It was Legalex that told me just this week that they did not hold up a lot of hope to have any money refunded but were flying to meat with a Morroccan lawyer in Feb. to see what his approach would be. I believe Legalex have around 100 clients in the same boat. Are you on the same area of the devopment?

Regards

Moo

 

[Grim Reaper]

Hi Moo

I am suprised at Legalex as they are fully aware of the situation with regards to licensing. I believe that from your standpoint the latest Oasis newsletter should have covered your concerns.

No I am not a buyer, but I have been involved in Overseas Property industry longer than probably anyone else (40 years) so I do have the ear of many past and present major players.

Certainly there have been problems in Saidia for all the developers there, but it is my understanding that of all the developments planned, Oasis is in the strongest position as they at least have title to their land.

 

[clibbens]

This explains Grim Reaper's connection to Superior and makes for interesting reading:

http://www.propertyforum.com/forum/mediterrania-saidia-morocco-owners-group-forum/6120-superior-real-estate-group-carol-vorderman-overseas-homes.html

 

[InvestorInvestigator]

Oasis Beach and Gols

For information to all Oasis buyers, regarding aftesales.

It has come to my attention that the aftersales department of Oasis Beach opertaed by a James Cook or Clark or something similar is actually Geoff North one of the original owners of Superior real estate now in administration and also, as far as I have been able to dsicover one of the Shareholders of the Oasis Morocco Company.

Why he is posing as aftersales with an assumed name is beyond me but it does sound very fishy?

Thought you all should know - perhaps someone should call this guy at Oasis Beach in the UK and ask him directly?

 

[daktari]

Oasis Beach & golf plus Superior

Refering to the posts by Lazytrader (11 Jan 2008) and Isadora (12 Jan 2008) both mention that Superior were registering a new company to continue with the Oasis Saidia Morocco project.
It is interesting to note that Superior wanted 20% instalment a week before the directors take Superior into administration (i.e. on 18 Jan 2008!).

Please comment or email. especially Lazytrader and Isadora;
Would be interesting to chat.

 

[Isadora]

Refering to the posts by Lazytrader (11 Jan 2008) and Isadora (12 Jan 2008) both mention that Superior were registering a new company to continue with the Oasis Saidia Morocco project.
It is interesting to note that Superior wanted 20% instalment a week before the directors take Superior into administration (i.e. on 18 Jan 2008!).

Please comment or email. especially Lazytrader and Isadora;
Would be interesting to chat.

I think you'll find both at http://groups.google.ie/group/oasisbeachgolf

 

[daktari]

Thank you Isadora.
I have applied to join the group.

Meanwhile, reading SaidiaSpy's posts in his thread, it is concerning how this project is fairing at present, and the confidence levels fluctuating.

Hope to exchange with you later.
Thanks

 

[daktari]

Oasis Morroco

Dear All,
With the current world crisis (credit crunch, unemployment, over-supply and production of consumer goods) it will appear that most people in common will pause and not look into any form of investment.

I, for one, need some encouragement:
1. Although the best time to buy is ironically when the general consensus is not to enter the market, thereby one can pickup bargains;
2. Everything we look back at has some form of a cycle. If we are in the downward trend, then at some point there will be an uptrend of the cycle. The timing however is dependant on ones luck and judgment; With a hope for the better!

Those who have already invested in the off-the-plan projects such as the Oasis Morocco will have mixed opinions.
1. Regretting their investments as they are caught in the downward spiral due to the current world crisis.
2. Others hopeful that they may have entered the tourist arena with a bargain and wait for the upturn to be able to rent to cover the costs;

For the latter, the reliance of a purchaser is upon the developers or the site managers not to make uncomfortable wait whilst, in particular the Oasis, are either delayed to obtain funds for the construction or the Local Government licensing of the build plans.

The questions to the developers I would ask initially are:
1. Can they consolidate their plans for the site at Saidia – (my suggestion would be to get all the players on a table) e.g. Oasis, Fadesa (or their successors) so as to jointly concentrate on completing a Block development at a time;
2. For the above, the current owners will need to cooperate with the developers and accept some kind of inter-migration from their Block properties (Possibly, leaving some Blocks well populated and thereby providing the funds from their respective 10, 20 % instalments. The developers will find relief and less burden from the bankers!;

This may sound idealistic. The alternative is to wait (possibly forever) if the developers go belly up trying to compete with each other in their respective constructions!

I believe that if some strategic changes are implemented, it may encourage some to speed up the purchase, while new ones to have better confidence in coming forward to buy.

From the site reports and the recent history by observers on this forum, and elsewhere, my personal opinion of the whole developement is not very encouraging.

I welcome any comments on what I have writen here.

 

[Mr Ri]

Daktari.

I'm not an Oasis investor but I am a Saidia investor (The Greens).
At the moment I think the Saidia developers are still in business - in survival mode most likely.

If they progress with construction work they start to spend money that maybe they don't have, and potentially get themselves into debt.

If they complete the construction, then to get the bulk of the money they have to ensure all their buyers can complete. The probability is that there is a percentage of buyers who cannot complete. Of those that can complete, many will be looking for anyway they can to reduce the costs (and improve their investment in these difficult times).

If they do nothing, and wait for the economy, exchange rates, etc to improve then this is the lowest risk option.

No it doesn't suit us buyers as they have our money, and we can't get it back. Taking legal action to recover the deposits is a further investment for the buyer, and most likely, the developer will only pay at the court steps, or potentially go out of business.

So the tactic is sit and wait. If things improve then great.

 

[Lee Filkins]

subject

Dont forget the following.

a) All documents needs to be transalted into Arabic, before they are accepted by the Court.

b) The loser does not pay the other sides cost. Apart from Court fee.

c) As per Moroccan law, every month delayed after the contactual hand over date the buyer gets 1% discount.

d)Judges are regularly bribed and will be well in with the developer.

e) Try and enforce the Court order even if you win the case.

Good luck

 

[daktari]

Oasis Morroco

Ri,

Thats my point - no money left in the developers' banks; they need to borrow to continue with the construction; with the banks sitting on their backs - and as always the banks will have better leverage then the individual investors to extract their money out first.

With the history of ineffeicient project management, long delays by the local goverment to grant/pass stages of plans and/or construction, would the developers want to pay the banks the 'facility fees' for waiting to 'see light at the other end of the tunnel? I would guess that simple mathematics would reveal that the developers would sit back wait (as they have done) and think deep before clocking on the borrowing costs.

It appears therefore that if I was to agree with Ri and 'do nothing' is the same as close ones eyes and think of England.

Hence, 'Camel with three humps'
If there is a double taxation treaty with Morroco, is there a reciprocal legal system these (international) days that the Court Jurisdiction to be flexible so as to allow the 'Claim' in the country of origin/residence of the Claimant. It may save the translation costs. etc..

Lots of people will need good luck

 

[Lee Filkins]

subject

"there a reciprocal legal system these (international)

You dont seam that naive!!! Yes there are agreements. These are not at a consumer level. You will be lucky to enforce Moroccan law. What chance of an International agreement

"
Court Jurisdiction to be flexible "

No courts are flexible, including UK.

'Claim' in the country of origin/residence of the Claimant. It may save the translation costs. etc..

This can be only done in EU Country for matters arising in another member country. Morocco is not a EU member as I am sure that you are aware.

 

[daktari]

Oasis Morroco

Camel with three humps,

My suggestions sound 'naive' but...
Perhaps when the purchasers/owners write to the King of Morroco and point out the need for 'international understanding' and to attract investors from within EU,
there may be a need for 'flexible contracts' with a dual jurisdication clause;

If The King is indifferent, then the EU citizens will need to think many times before landing a contract in Morrocon jurisdiction only!

My re-collection is that the King wants an international recognition and in particular raise the profile via Oasis at Saidia projects.

The problem he may not fully understand is that there are a lot of EU investors dissatisfied with the project management, some already in legal stages.

Compare Morroco and Turkey - I think both want to up their image in the EU. Would it not be a good PR for Morroco to be flexible with the legalities and raise EU investors' confidence?

 

[Lee Filkins]

Subject

Investors come from all over. Their rights should be protected EU or no EU. It is for this reason that one should be careful & do their research.

I purchased from a highly reputable developer. Due to delay they had refunded me my 100%. Two emails & funds were returned.

I shall not be returning to Morocco as an investor in a hurry, irrespective of the economic cycle.