NE Brazil Full report

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Golfingworld

New Member
This may seem like a personal fued to to others, but my purpose is to bring some reality into the real situation with regard to NE Brazil. If nothing else it might make interested outsiders take a deep breath and not dive into something that is nowhere near as vibrant, as it is being painted. Let me get this right.....
Occupancy is claimed at around 70%, yet I can walk into any hotel I want at a discount.
The people on the beach don't reflect the level of tourist occupancy.
Anyhow, we all want quiet beaches, that's why we go there, except presumably for Ipanema and Copacabana.
Natal is allegedly 6.5 hours from Lisbon, so do we all buy properties there as well, so as to get to Brazil sooner? Or do we ignore the extra 2+ hours from London/Paris/Frankfurt/Stockholm?
Flights are frequent and cheap and the new hub will increase these...maybe my Xmas flight at £900 reflects this competitive market?
Prices seem to have doubled in three years, yet I have just found a prime position flat 20% less than most other off plan offers and everyone from my taxi driver to a the hall porter has a property he wants to sell to me.
Favourable exchange rate...yet the B$ Reis has consistently increased against hard currencies in the last 12 months. So why is it favourable?
Massive surge in affordable charter flights....this surge consists of one flight, Thomson from the UK to Natal and one First Choice in summer to Salvador, Airtours cancelled theirs and Thomson have just bought 1st Choice, Thomas Cook don't fly there! Some surge..but don't forget one Air Europa flight from Madrid and a BRA flight from Lisbon to Natal at £700.
Self sufficient in oil...well sugar cane to be exact.
A foreigner can own 100% of his property..... but he cant get a bank account easily to pay his gas or electricity bill. He has to pay someone else to do that for him.
Paying a 25% premium and buying now protects you from inflation over the next 7 years.
These are the facts, everyone will make up their own mind,
 
B

beenthere

Guest
This may seem like a personal fued to to others, but my purpose is to bring some reality into the real situation with regard to NE Brazil. If nothing else it might make interested outsiders take a deep breath and not dive into something that is nowhere near as vibrant, as it is being painted. Let me get this right.....
Occupancy is claimed at around 70%, yet I can walk into any hotel I want at a discount.
The people on the beach don't reflect the level of tourist occupancy.
Anyhow, we all want quiet beaches, that's why we go there, except presumably for Ipanema and Copacabana.
Natal is allegedly 6.5 hours from Lisbon, so do we all buy properties there as well, so as to get to Brazil sooner? Or do we ignore the extra 2+ hours from London/Paris/Frankfurt/Stockholm?
Flights are frequent and cheap and the new hub will increase these...maybe my Xmas flight at £900 reflects this competitive market?
Prices seem to have doubled in three years, yet I have just found a prime position flat 20% less than most other off plan offers and everyone from my taxi driver to a the hall porter has a property he wants to sell to me.
Favourable exchange rate...yet the B$ Reis has consistently increased against hard currencies in the last 12 months. So why is it favourable?
Massive surge in affordable charter flights....this surge consists of one flight, Thomson from the UK to Natal and one First Choice in summer to Salvador, Airtours cancelled theirs and Thomson have just bought 1st Choice, Thomas Cook don't fly there! Some surge..but don't forget one Air Europa flight from Madrid and a BRA flight from Lisbon to Natal at £700.
Self sufficient in oil...well sugar cane to be exact.
A foreigner can own 100% of his property..... but he cant get a bank account easily to pay his gas or electricity bill. He has to pay someone else to do that for him.
Paying a 25% premium and buying now protects you from inflation over the next 7 years.
These are the facts, everyone will make up their own mind,

That is a nice response golfXXXX, when people ask you for evidence to support your supposed facts, nothing is forthcoming, just more of the same old.
 
G

Golfingworld

New Member
GolfXXXX,

How come you don't remember the pousada name like robh asked you three times? You didn't stay there did you? it sounds like you were telling a porky, tsk tsk...


Yes my friend you are right, I made it all up! There is one person on here that knows exactly what flight I was on, where I went and what time I arrived..his people met me. The pictures I took are library fotos and and I missed the last two goals of Brazil v USA on ESPN sport, as I was at dinner at a churrascaria. My ribs in "Golfhino" main street Pipa were a bit tough but not as tough as avoiding the potholes on the road from Tabatinga to the main highway. I had trouble finding the Banco de Brazil cashpoint on the main street, but got there in the end. The internet cafe next to my hotel in Pipa (left and left again) burned some cds for a friend for only 3 Reis and it was a slog up those cobbled streets from the beach in flip flops. You are right, the world is full of dreamers. I am dreaming about going there one day...can you recommend a cheap hotel or are they all 70% full?
 
B

beenthere

Guest
GolfXXXX,

How come you don't remember the pousada name like robh asked you three times? You didn't stay there did you? it sounds like you were telling a porky, tsk tsk...


Yes my friend you are right, I made it all up! There is one person on here that knows exactly what flight I was on, where I went and what time I arrived..his people met me. The pictures I took are library fotos and and I missed the last two goals of Brazil v USA on ESPN sport, as I was at dinner at a churrascaria. My ribs in "Golfhino" main street Pipa were a bit tough but not as tough as avoiding the potholes on the road from Tabatinga to the main highway. I had trouble finding the Banco de Brazil cashpoint on the main street, but got there in the end. The internet cafe next to my hotel in Pipa (left and left again) burned some cds for a friend for only 3 Reis and it was a slog up those cobbled streets from the beach in flip flops. You are right, the world is full of dreamers. I am dreaming about going there one day...can you recommend a cheap hotel or are they all 70% full?
All that and you still haven't said the name of the pousada you stayed in.
 
D

deedee1

New Member
:)Evening all,

Oh children- he said she said come on whats the mnames and be done with it??? :rolleyes:

GW-youve been back 2 minutes and already the pot has started to boil again!!! I dont know you cant tame a wildcat!!!:D

Actually have missed you- find it quite amusing!!

Take care all- adios amigos D !!
 
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mitico67

New Member
I was in Natal from 08/09/07-16/09/07 I've visited the North up to Turos and South down to Pipa. I agreee with GW that it makes sense to buy a resale or almost completed apartment in Pontanegra rather that buy an offplan wich will be completed in 1-2 years time. However there are many building sites in pontanegra and not many foreign tourists around. I understand that it was low season still I've expected to be much more vibrant for the number of estates ready and on completion all around Natal and especially pontanegra. More sensible option would be to rent out on a 6 month period to brazilian workers and the other 3-4 months (high season) try to rent it to tourists. A 2 bed apt. 15-20 min (walking distance)from the beach can be rented out at 1200 reais per month at Brazilians. So you should work out if it's enough to justify the purchase. Forget to buy an apt in a residence and join the pool rental system. The money you get after condominium fee a ridicolous. They're are made only in the interest of the management. I' m considering in buy in a almost completed resort place in Tibao do Sul and thanks to the help I can get from my friend in Brazil try to market the place even to Brazilians and not just foreigners. There are a lot of things going on in Natal, they are definetely improving the infrastructures, roads are buing built the new bridge is there, they just forgot to buy the land for the access roads.....I didn't find it a dirty town even if there are a lots of almost shanty houses. I even used the public transport it does take you around.....forget to find a proper bus stop with indication which bus stops and where they go...just ask. The only thing that really didn't impress me is the architecture of Natal apart from the beaches and the skyscrapers not much. You can count the place of interests with the fingers of one hand. Does it make business sense to invest there? If you don't pay silly prices and you are able to market it properly with a good network you got a chance. The trick is to understand if the entry level is already too high.
 
J

Jbealey

New Member
I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not everyone likes the same thing (thank goodness).

I am heading out to Natal in November for the 6th time in less than 2 years and after my first visit I decided to return and purchase a property and 4 plots of land.

I too have set up my own business to highlight the investment opportunities in the North East and I give a true repsentation of the area and properties. I too agree that if you need a rental return, certain areas of Brazil are not right (at the moment). If you are looking for a holiday home that can be used by friends and family, there are many to choose from.

The BR101 heading North from Natal is certainly not the road to hell. Its well maintained and safer than many of our British roads.

If anyone has doubts about investing in Brazil, do your research and go with your head and heart. It would be awful if in 5 years time, when the airport is in place and this region has started to develop, that you missed out because you listened to one persons opinion.

Brazil is not for everyone, but after travelling to many countries, this was the one place where I could see my self living now and in the future.

Life is not always about good roads and nice houses, in Brazil you get the way of like, stress free living, sunshine and the opportunity to invest.

If you would like more information on buying in the North East of Brazil, I would be happy to talk to you. :)

Good Luck to those of you taking the plunge. I may see you out there.

Julie
JustBrazil Ltd
 
R

robh

Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
If anyone has doubts about investing in Brazil, do your research and go with your head and heart. It would be awful if in 5 years time, when the airport is in place and this region has started to develop, that you missed out because you listened to one persons opinion.
I couldn't agree more...
 
E

EDP24

New Member
The reality of the infastructure issues are hard to consolidate with the apparent upbeat feel to the Brazil market- developments like Lagoa Do Coelho are cause for optimism however if the planned road/airport/ commercial developments are not up to scratch then surly early investors will face resale issues. However Thailand/Pacific rim countries have shown modernisation can work
 
D

deedee1

New Member
:)hi Ed,

I Agree!!

The Main Factor Is That As Long As The Economy Is Growing And Expanding Rapidly In The Way That It Is Then The Modernisation Will Have To Catch Up Also!!

This Will Take Time And For A Country As Huge As Brazil This Will Take A Long Time!

Also Due To Brazils Size It Will Also Be Hard To Tell Or See Exactly How Much Brail Is Changing And Taking Shape As The Development Will Be Spread Over Such A Huge Mass Of Land!!

I.e-whereas If It Was A Small Country Or A Small Island You Would Be Able To See The Changes More And Faster To The Human Eye And See It Unravelling Quicker!!

See Ya -d:)
 
E

EDP24

New Member
Hi D,

Regionalism will be a factor in Brazil, some states will grasp change faster and more enthusiastically than others- meaning a wide spectrum of property developments will be on offer the shear size of Brazil will makee the property market there a very interesting one to watch.
 
N

nickohorny

New Member
The infrastructures are in effect already tho, the RN-160 is already being paved as we speak, even on sunday they were at it!
 
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EDP24

New Member
Nick thats good to hear, the completion date for the airport etc was 2009 do you think this is a realistic target?
 
D

deedee1

New Member
Hi all,

Apparently there has been as issue or two regarding funding and the airport was on standstill for a while so I reacon that 2010 may be more realistic to be safe!!

See ya D :)

P.S WHATS TH RN10- IS IT A MOTORWAY AND WHERE IS IT??
 
R

robh

Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
I love this statement:

"According to officials, the fact that the Government and its bureaucracy will not be involved with the works should speed up the process.
If everything goes as planned, the new airport should be (partially) operating before the end of 2010."
 
R

RalphJ

New Member
GW,

You seem to have forgotten to mention that there were road works on the way down to Pipa as they are making the BR101 dual carriage-way. I am not sure about the dodgy areas you are talking about in Natal, I saw some really dodgy areas in Salvador and Rio, but never anything to be worried about in Natal ever. Not sure about the 80k deaths each year, last I heard it was 34k, but neither number surprises me in a country of nearly 190 million (US has 43k p.a. to add some perspective).

As for Pipa being a sort of ok place to buy, I think you need to talk to the locals that run the pousadas and resorts, there are resorts there with 70% occupancy. Also we get at least one request a day from Brazilians asking if we have anything to rent in Pipa (and this is to a website written only in English!).

Rob.

GW...you need to make an apples to apples comparison in respect to deaths due to driving accidents. And deaths per 100,000 no one in the world comes close to brazil....unfortunately. For all the countries on the planet that the U.N. keeps statistics of, Brazil has, by far and away, the worst record in regards to traffic accident fatalities. Comparing them to the United States would be like comparing Brazil's murder rate to Englands.
 
G

Golfingworld

New Member
Ralph, I didn't you misread the quote....it was Rob that made the comparison to the US if you read back. But thanks for pointing out how bad it is to drive in Brazil...couldn't agree more, it is your worst nightmare on the highway there and that's before you get hijacked at night. They'll all enjoy going up and down that road to Maracajau!
 
R

robh

Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
GW...you need to make an apples to apples comparison in respect to deaths due to driving accidents. And deaths per 100,000 no one in the world comes close to brazil....unfortunately. For all the countries on the planet that the U.N. keeps statistics of, Brazil has, by far and away, the worst record in regards to traffic accident fatalities. Comparing them to the United States would be like comparing Brazil's murder rate to Englands.
Hi,

I just crunched the numbers and I get 17.89 per 100k in Brazil and 17.2 per 100k in USA.

Then I checked a FIA foundation report and it confirmed those figures.

Africa & East Mediterranean countries have the highest rates in the world.

Rob.
 
R

RalphJ

New Member
Hi,

I just crunched the numbers and I get 17.89 per 100k in Brazil and 17.2 per 100k in USA.

Then I checked a FIA foundation report and it confirmed those figures.

Africa & East Mediterranean countries have the highest rates in the world.

Rob.

Rob...check the united nations. The U.S. doesn't even come close to traffic fatalities as Brazil. Anyone with any type of experience in either of the two countries would know this by their simple experiences. I don't need to see the sun during the day to know that it's there.

One thing you must take into consideration concerning brazil as well, they just started keeping statistics for many things just recently, and unquestionably over the years it has been a simple case of not keeping accurate statistics. Afterall, who wants to be labeled things like, "murder champion of the world"....which brazil is not btw, but they are third with more than 27 violent deaths per 100K.

But things are getting better here, day by day. Believe me when I say, MANY here bite their nose off to spite their face, as the saying goes. Pridefullness to the point of ignorant and dangerous.
 
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