Moroccan Structural Surveys

[leemar]

To Buyers of Moroccan Property

This is to let you all know that following my report on this forum last year regarding my concerns over the build quality of the property which I am considering buying in Morocco (Saidia),I have instructed two Surveyors I know here in the UK to perform a Structural Survey on my property prior to completion.

It was clear to the Surveyors after listening to my concerns that there is a desperate need for this service within Morocco. They have therefore decided to offer their services to buyers of Moroccan property generally. I am assisting them myself from a legal viewpoint, as I am a lawyer here in the UK.

If anyone shares similar concerns to me over the build quality of their own properties then you can contact the Surveyors via their website which is Home Page

I have also copied below a news release from the Company which summarises the service:

Moroccan Structural Surveys, an independent company specialising in providing Structural and Pre-Completion Surveys to buyers of property in Morocco, has recently opened for business.

The Company has been established to assist buyers who have concerns about the build quality of properties which they are considering buying in Morocco by offering them access to a service which is used routinely in UK and Worldwide property transactions.

The objective of the Company is to provide buyers with comprehensive and truly independent reports on their properties so that they are fully informed and have all the relevant information which they need to determine whether, and on what basis, they wish to proceed to completion.

The Company has been set up by John Howard and Peter Jones who are both UK experts in structural engineering and design, in collaboration with Lee Markham, a UK-based Lawyer, who approached John and Peter for advice following the concerns he had regarding the build quality of a property he is considering buying in Morocco.

The Company is able to provide buyers with full structural assessments of their properties whilst simultaneously offering them access to a more general pre-completion snagging service. If requested, the Company can also seek to negotiate and resolve issues arising from any Survey direct with developers on buyer’s behalf.

John Howard (BSc (Hons),CEng, MICE, FIStructE),Director of Civil & Structural Engineering at Moroccan Structural Surveys, commented that;

“It is our mission as a company to provide our clients with a fully integrated service which enables them to appoint UK qualified professionals to review and oversee the construction process on their behalf so that our experience can be used to safeguard our client’s financial interests in what is an emerging market with as yet no established record of building practice.”

For further information about the Company, the services it offers and how to get in contact, please refer to Home Page

 

[markwillenbrock]

It is a good idea to get a survey done, obviously.

However, there are British surveyors active in Morocco already, which has to be cheaper than flying one out from the UK.

There are also local structural engineers here - in fact if you are applying for planning permission to modify a building a structural report is often compulsory - an 'attestation de stabilité'

Build quality can be seriously doubtful on the new build properties and old property is built (and repaired) using materials and techniques unfamiliar to foreigners.

In fact, if you are considering using a surveyor before buying a house in the medina, make sure he is familiar with the construction type.

I remember the sale of our family home in the UK in 1990. Built with an oak timber frame, brick and wattle and daub in 1520 (which isn't very different from pisé or adobe) the RICS surveyors verdict was, and I quote, "that it would fall down in the next high wind".

Needless to say, it's still standing.

 

[leemar]

Thanks for your post on which I've a few comments:

1. Moroccan Structural Surveys will be competitively priced against any other British surveyors operating in Morocco because the company’s policy is for the expenses of its surveyors to be shared equally between several clients rather than one client bearing the cost of all such expenses.

2. Moroccan Structural Surveys intend to have a surveyor based in Morocco at Saidia and so will soon have a presence in Morocco in any event.

3. Personally, I wouldn’t trust any local Moroccan surveyor to conduct a survey of my own property. I’m not at all convinced that a local surveyor would be anywhere near adequately qualified given the sub-standard level of build I’ve experienced in Morocco so far. I’d also worry about the independence of local surveyors as I’ve seen first-hand the level of corruption in Morocco. In addition, I’d be concerned about whether a local surveyor could write and speak English in terms of actually communicating with me and providing me with a written structural report.

4. I’d want to instruct someone whose credentials I can readily check before parting with my cash, as with John Howard of Moroccan Structural Surveys, whose qualifications can be checked with the Institute of Structural Engineers/Civil Engineers here in the UK.

5. I think that UK buyers are absolutely fed up with not being able to contact overseas-based lawyers, developers, agents and doubtless you could add surveyors to this list. I’d want to instruct a UK company with its address in England who I can readily pick up the phone and call and actually speak to someone.

6. I agree that even UK Surveyors don’t always get it right as the example of your UK property shows. But I for one think that any buyers proceeding without a survey in Morocco will be taking a very big risk which could prove very expensive, particularly on many developments where there are no building guarantees. Morocco is after all still very much an emerging market with little established record of building practice.

 

[simon b]

Phoned Moroccan Stuctural Suryeys left message and contact details no reply from them sent email to them contact from cat find webpage.

so how are you meant to contact them by !:hmmmm2:














. Moroccan Structural Surveys will be competitively priced against any other British surveyors operating in Morocco because the company’s policy is for the expenses of its surveyors to be shared equally between several clients rather than one client bearing the cost of all such expenses.

2. Moroccan Structural Surveys intend to have a surveyor based in Morocco at Saidia and so will soon have a presence in Morocco in any event.

3. Personally, I wouldn’t trust any local Moroccan surveyor to conduct a survey of my own property. I’m not at all convinced that a local surveyor would be anywhere near adequately qualified given the sub-standard level of build I’ve experienced in Morocco so far. I’d also worry about the independence of local surveyors as I’ve seen first-hand the level of corruption in Morocco. In addition, I’d be concerned about whether a local surveyor could write and speak English in terms of actually communicating with me and providing me with a written structural report.

4. I’d want to instruct someone whose credentials I can readily check before parting with my cash, as with John Howard of Moroccan Structural Surveys, whose qualifications can be checked with the Institute of Structural Engineers/Civil Engineers here in the UK.

5. I think that UK buyers are absolutely fed up with not being able to contact overseas-based lawyers, developers, agents and doubtless you could add surveyors to this list. I’d want to instruct a UK company with its address in England who I can readily pick up the phone and call and actually speak to someone.

6. I agree that even UK Surveyors don’t always get it right as the example of your UK property shows. But I for one think that any buyers proceeding without a survey in Morocco will be taking a very big risk which could prove very expensive, particularly on many developments where there are no building guarantees. Morocco is after all still very much an emerging market with little established record of building practice.[/QUOTE]

 

[leemar]

Phoned Moroccan Stuctural Suryeys left message and contact details no reply from them sent email to them contact from cat find webpage.

so how are you meant to contact them by !:hmmmm2:

Simon

I don't understand the difficulties you are experiencing.

If you can't find the Moroccan Structural Surveys webpage how did you obtain their phone number and email address to leave them a message in the first place ?? I understand their phone number and email address details only appear on their website.

Anyway, I have given Peter Jones of Moroccan Structural Surveys a quick call and he tells me that as of today he has responded by phone or email to everyone who has left a message with the company by phone or by email within 24 hours as is the company policy. I can only think that perhaps you dialled the wrong number.

If you do want to call them their phone number is 0845 621 0334 which as I say is on their website. Alternatively, you can email them via the website.

Their website address is www dot moroccanstructuralsurveys dot com (Home Page). Just click on the link 'home page' from this site. I have done this myself from the link above and went straight through to the website without any difficulty.

But if you are still experiencing problems, then PM me and I'll try to assist you further.

 

[simon b]

Try the contact page and all you get is error 404. thats the number I phoned and left my contact details on the anser machine this week will try again next week.

Phoned Moroccan Stuctural Suryeys left message and contact details no reply from them sent email to them contact from cat find webpage.

so how are you meant to contact them by !:hmmmm2:

Simon

I don't understand the difficulties you are experiencing.

If you can't find the Moroccan Structural Surveys webpage how did you obtain their phone number and email address to leave them a message in the first place ?? I understand their phone number and email address details only appear on their website.

Anyway, I have given Peter Jones of Moroccan Structural Surveys a quick call and he tells me that as of today he has responded by phone or email to everyone who has left a message with the company by phone or by email within 24 hours as is the company policy. I can only think that perhaps you dialled the wrong number.

If you do want to call them their phone number is 0845 621 0334 which as I say is on their website. Alternatively, you can email them via the website.

Their website address is www dot moroccanstructuralsurveys dot com (Home Page). Just click on the link 'home page' from this site. I have done this myself from the link above and went straight through to the website without any difficulty.

But if you are still experiencing problems, then PM me and I'll try to assist you further.

 

[leemar]

Try the contact page and all you get is error 404. thats the number I phoned and left my contact details on the anser machine this week will try again next week.

Simon

Very strange. I have just gone onto the "contact us" section of the website of Moroccan Structural Surveys and it worked absolutely fine. The message- "Thank you for your enquiry" appeared. I received no error message whatsoever.

I can only think that there must have been some technical fault with the server of the web hosting company when you tried to submit your enquiry because it is working fine now.

Like I say, if you have any other problems PM me with your details.

 

[markwillenbrock]

The website works fine for me - though I'd love to know where the images come from; slightly naughty to infer connections with historic medersas, I think.

I can't really think that the service will work until a surveyor is actually based in Morocco; and there are already British Surveyors based in Morocco. It's all very well to claim that a survey result will be with the client in five days, but how quickly will the survey be carried out? Not quickly if you are going to wait for enough surveys to be carried out to justify the flight, car hire, accommodation...

In terms of professional assessment of the property, one needs to have comparative values in the local market. Lets be honest - nothing built in Morocco matches British standards of construction. You could condemn everything - it's a very easy option when charging for a survey, and means you'll never be hit by a claim.

What's much harder is to realistically assess a property, and its value, in the light of local conditions.

Surely it's this that the international purchaser needs?

He already has his own, British perspective, after all.

I don't mean to be negative. But please, like the rest of us, take the plunge and base someone in Morocco.

 

[leemar]

Whilst I disagree with many of your comments, you perhaps have given me a useful opportunity to clarify a few points for buyers in Morocco:

1. The Surveyors have received a very positive response to their service so far. As such, I don't think that it will represent a problem for them to deliver a service within a timetable which is acceptable to their clients. They can also provide client's with an exclusive service should they so require. As before, in the medium to long term, they intend to have a representative in Saidia anyway.

2. I think that, as per your earlier post, you agree that surveys are a good idea. Fundamentally, I consider that this is because before buyers (like myself) make what amounts to probably the second largest single investment of their life, they simply want reassurance and confirmation from qualified professionals who they trust that their properties are structurally sound. Buyers want to assess whether defects exist and for such defects to be remedied before completion, or else a discount to be negotiated on the purchase price. Without a survey, as a lay-person, it is difficult to determine, whether and on what basis to proceed to completion which is the precisely the reason I'm having a survey done in the first place.

3. I, and other buyers who have instructed Moroccan Structural Surveys, couldn't find suitably qualified Moroccan-based British Surveyor's who we were happy to instruct. I think this goes back to the fact that people are fed up with the trials and tribulations of trying to deal with overseas based lawyers, developers, agents and the like. In any event, I would rather use a company based in the UK, with a Uk Phone number and whose Surveyors are regulated by the Institute of Civil and Structural Engineers.

4. It's simply not correct to assert that the Surveyors will be assessing Moroccan properties from a purely British perspective. The Surveyors have extensive overseas construction knowledge having worked on various construction projects throughout the world. I'm sure they would be happy to provide any interested clients with relevant details of their overseas experience. I'll suggest to them that they should include such details when they update their website, as obviously you wouldn't have raised this point if you had been aware of the facts.

5. Whilst I think that it's right that the Surveyors should review properties from an overseas, and not purely British, perspective, I don't think that buyers should be too lenient in terms of what they accept as an acceptable quality of build in Morocco. I say this because, in many resorts in Morocco, including Saidia, European prices are being charged for Moroccan properties, so buyers should quite rightly expect a European standard of build.

6. In terms of the local market value of Moroccan properties, this is to a large extent dictated by the global market as in most emerging markets particularly where new build properties are concerned. This is because the vast majority of the local population can't afford to buy the properties which are being constructed in any event and so the market value often fluctuates relative to the financial strength and buying power of Western purchasers.

As such, my reason for having a survey is in no way linked to obtaining a current market assessment of the value of my property. Rather, as above, the reason for having a survey it is to identify structural defects which should be remedied before completion and also to provide me with a tool to renegotiate the purchase price in my contract based on any defects which are identified.

7. I understand the photo images come from new build residential property in Morocco as oppose to re-sale and established properties, which it is not intended the photos should implicate. Again, perhaps the Surveyors can clarify this when the time comes for them to update the website.

 

[JamesLW]

Having read the concerns and having lived and worked in Morocco for the past ten years I am considering offering just such a service to foreign investors here. (ww.ittc.ma)
I am an architect (British) but only work here as a consultant.
There are a lot of 'problems' with building in Morocco and the most dangerous of them can be attributed to the fact that the entire building game here is incredibly corrupt - and that includes surveyors.
But, the 'engineering' is all French and that is very different to UK/US structural engineering and a British 'surveyor' arriving here without some understanding of either the theory or reality (of building practices here) would not really be much more use than a local surveyor (who is worthless).

 

[leemar]

To James Leanord-Williams

I’m very surprised by your post to say the least.

I’m assisting John Howard of Moroccan Structural Surveys in a legal capacity and he informs me that you contacted him directly this morning to ask whether John Howard would be interested in working with you !

You then post a note on this forum on the very same day which seeks to imply that the service John Howard is offering through Moroccan Structural Surveys is pretty much worthless !!

You clearly have a firm agenda and I’d be very dubious about trusting an individual who conducts himself in such a two-faced fashion. I can tell you that John Howard is certainly not interested in working with you now or at any time in the future.

Many of the regular posters on this site will already be aware, however for the avoidance of doubt, I confirm that John Howard is a Fellow of the Institution of Structural/Civil Engineers here in the UK. In addition, John also has extensive overseas construction experience and is familiar with the building practices in Morocco as well as many other countries. John has said he is happy to provide his clients with a copy of his CV to include his relevant overseas experience should they so require.

 

[markwillenbrock]

Those interested in this thread might also be interested to know that James Cutting, a British surveyor who has been living in Marrakech for years, is now practicing again.

His email is [email protected] and his telephone number is 00212 61245481