Marrakesh

[Sunnyshores]

MP
If you do an internet search (Maroc Asur residence or Gardens de Fedela) there are several agents with vague details of one of the developments.
I asked Mark, as he sent me an email with brief details of both developments on and I have dealt with him before. Apparently full details are hard to come by.
Let me know any progress.
SS

 

[Sunnyshores]

Update :

There are several off-plan Gardens of Fedela (Jardins de Fedela) in Marrakesh.

1. There are villas in NW E180kish - for sale by Bluefish & IQ property invest
2. Appartments near Samanah Country club (SW) E100kish - Bluefish
3. Something else near Samanah country Club - details and prices unknown. Possibly a later phase of 2 above.

All have the great incentives from the developer. I think location and the quality of build/finish are key here :

has anyone seen a G of F in the flesh?

Does anyone know any more about the individual locations?

There is a fedela website at Les-jardins-de-fedala but it doesnt have much info.

SS

 

[manor park]

SS

Had a look at the info for these and it does look good, the incentives and guarantees look as sound as they can be. I do not know the area so cant comment on the location. I think that I would be more interested in the apartments and will check these when Mark releases the information.

MP

 

[Sunnyshores]

I've just found Dreamworld's El Oasis de Marrakesh (mentioned in an earlier posting). Dreamworld - Signature Developments
There are 1014 units - 2 beds appts £130k, 3 bed duplex £255k. This seems pretty expensive to me. But a good payment package. I also recall the Dreamworld's Tinjah project nr Tangiers being much critisised mainly due to the developer.
Any thoughts ?

I note its in NW, although closer to the centre than the Gardens of Fedela villas I'm looking at, does anyone know the area ? Whats it like/going to be like ?

SS

 

[manor park]

SS

I asked the same question on page one of this thread with no reponse. I thought the 3 beds expensive but your extras are built into the price. I will hang on and see what the GoF apartments are like.

MP

 

[Sunnyshores]

MP - I'm not interested in buying here (I'm still looking at the GofF villas),but really want to know about the area. Or perhaps that doesnt matter. Whatever it looks like now, it'll be a totally different story in 2009 when they're complete. I suppsoe I just need to get out there myself. Easier said than done with schoolage children!
SS

 

[prolan]

Investing in Marrakech or Not?

I see some comments saying Marrakech is already too expensive and that is not a good investment at this stage and directing people to higher growth areas in Northern morocco.

I must admit yes, Marrakech is much more of a mature market than other cities in morocco, but that doesn't mean it is not an interesting place to invest.

Bear in mind that Marrakech was, is and will remain the main tourism magnet of Morocco. The tourists are already coming in hordes and if you have traveled there you must know that it is not easy to find hotel / accomodation. Occupancy rates for hotels are the highest in marrakech and agadir.

Moreover with prices still approx 30 % to 40 % cheaper than other places in European cities, stringent building regulations in terms of building density (for out of town developments) there is still much potential for capital growth.

I would say that Marrakech will earn you less in the short term but is definately a less speculative investment as there is real demand for all these properties being built (unlike some other places).

Kind regards,
Prolan

 

[Beluga]

I agree with you , Marrakech is an etablished market and with culturel and luxe tourisme, it's more safe to invest in Marrakech than in the new developments in the northcoast because there you invest in something new and not etablished. Also the climet in Marrakech is very different from the coast it's dry. In Marrakech you have with all the foreign residents live all the year and not only in the summer ....you have international activities , you have megaprojects , you have the tourist to rent you villa etc

 

[jdmat1]

Marrakech opportunity

IQ Property Investments now have a new Gardens of Fedala release in Marrakech with a 9 year rental guarantee of 7% net - see Specialists in the sale of discounted off-plan worldwide properties for investment purposes » IQ Property Investments Limited » Welcome

 

[EM Concepts]

All,

I was in Marrakech last week looking at the market as a whole. I visited a number of sites mentioned on this thread and spoke to a number of local agents as well. Just so that you know my angle, I am an agent.

Marrakech is an interesting city - your choice of accomodation at the moment is either a large number of cheap 3* hotels in Guilez (the new town),expensive Riads in the Medina (old town) or very expensive 5* Resorts in the Palmeraie or Hivenage. So straight away it is obvious that there is a gap in the market, for something located fairly centrally and of a medium price range.

We have been selling Dreamworld's (developed by Jet Sakane) Oasis De Marrakech for a while and really were impressed with the investment potential of the city. The reason for my trip was to look for something else to offer clients, for we never like to look like we are purely promoting one resort - unless we have good reason to.

The resorts outside of Marrakech, Atlas Golf etc etc seem to be aimed at purely holiday makers - they are far enough outside of Marrakech to make you think you could be somewhere else and the people that eventually rent off you may never leave the resort. For me that relies on the holiday market too much and doesnt offer anything unique about the place. Its hot, luxurious and has a golf resort - but then so do a lot of places...

Les Jardins de Fadela, talked about in this forum does offer great incentives with the buy back, rental guarantee etc but again the location of it outside of Marrakech restricts its appeal. It price per square metre is €1783 which again seems a little expensive outside of the town.

El Oasis De Marrakech is located closer in, still you wouldnt walk to the Medina but I did it in a "Petit Taxi" in 6 minutes for 8MAD (50p).. We are selling it at €1550 per square metre and are also offering a rental guarantee of 10% per annum for 2,3,5 or 10 years. This is now underwritten by a large insurance company, the policy in the purchasers name.

This brings me to another point (and I apologise if this is getting long!) - rental. I spoke to a number of local agents, who have property on their books in all parts of Marrakech and they say that for a very well located, well furnished, exceptional quality apartment you may get 6-8% max rental return. The main market for renting is either directly through tour operators for package holidays or to the French. The main market for resale is to the French (a lot of retirees). To rent it out yourself could be tricky.

So anyway, I've come back from Marrakech with the view that we will continue to promote El Oasis De Marrakech but we will not be offering any other resorts at the moment, as they really dont offer what I and my clients are after (that is clear opportunity for high capital appreciation and high rental returns). We have formed a partnership with a local agent as a number of clients wish to get further involved with the city and delve into the "black money" resale market - something we will leave to people who have experience with this.

So, in summary, I really do believe Marrakech has great investment potential. There is a clear gap and demand for quality apartments which are close the the new and old town, which at the moment are in short supply. the Palmeraie and further out hosts a range of developments which I believe to be a little overpriced and over marketed. Good money is to be made in rennovating Riads however that is not for the faint hearted.

I will be continuing my search for more product in Marrakech to fit my requirements and we are in discussion with developers to see what they can come up with.

Paul Bartlett

EM Concepts

 

[Sunnyshores]

Paul,
Thanks for your insights, always interesting to hear form someone who has actually been to the areas in question.

I do agree with you that by 2010, there will be alot of developments, many 15 mins from the Medina. But I dont think you can discount all developments that are this far out just because they will only appeal to tourists. As I said in an earlier posting, the familiy market isnt catered to that much at present. And whilst I find the idea of never of leaving the resort just plain wierd, I know alot of families that are only interested in somwhere luxurious, all-inclusive and sunny. For this market a good international standard of luxury is needed and location not too important.

When you say "For me that relies on the holiday market too much and doesnt offer anything unique about the place". What other markets do you believe Oasis (or something nearer the Medina) appeals to ?

Can I also ask a stupid question - if average rentals will be about 6% how are developers offering higher guaranteed rates ? Will these guarantees come at a cost to say the maintenance of the site?

Thanks, SS

 

[EM Concepts]

SS,

Thanks for the reply, reading back over my post I think the comment I made wasnt that clear so I'll re phrase !

The large resorts outside of Marrakech are like you say aimed primarily at the all inclusive family holiday market. There is a market because a lot of people will hate the centre of Marrakech, with its snake charmers, busy haggling markets and motorbikes riding on the pavements. This is great and needs to be catered for, however, to stay popular you need something unique about the development. Why go there over another country ? You also need it to be affordable. Morocco after all is still seen as cheap market. I certainly wont discount these developments but they need to be realistic.

Last week I stayed in relatively cheap accomodation in Gueliz, the new town. It was busy, very busy. All the rooms were full and the whole city centre was bustling. I wanted to go and use a pool for a bit so I took a taxi out to one of these completed resorts in the Palmeraie. There were 3 people around the pool and I was charged 400MAD (£25) to use a sunbed. It was a beatiful infinity pool overlooking a golf course, however the whole place look deserted. I just dont think people want to pay the sort of price that these resorts are asking for.

In a roundabout answer to your question, El Oasis is offering a high quality of accomodation but the big pull is its location makes it much more accesible to get to the busy areas. The accomodation will be cheaper to rent out than the palmeraie resorts and has a higher chance of occupation, due to its location and costs. It has facilities (ok no infinity pool or golf course) to meet the requirements of families and the location to meet the requirements of city tourists, who are there for Marrakech and not just for 5* luxury.

The average rentals I talked about were for city apartments, rented out individually. The 10% rental being received on El Oasis is a little different. The company operating the rental (independant of Dreamworld and of the developer, Jet Sakane) make contracts with Tour Operators signed for periods of a minimum two years, then renewable for 3,5 or 10 years. The 10% is simply a reflection of the amount that tour operators are willing to pay for these units and cant really be compared to the yield from a individual let, as the market is completely different.

I hope that this answers your questions ?

I really dont want to come across too "pro El Oasis" and I have a completely open mind about the area and other resorts and would love to see some competition come in to this gap in the market.

Paul

 

[Sunnyshores]

Paul, thanks for the clarification on the tourism view. I do see what you mean about developments nearer the medina attracting 'cultural' tourists aswell as sun-seeking families. However, longer term I think all these developments will compete on their quality more than their nearby facilities.

Affordability is interesting - whilst I think £25 for a sunbed is outrageous!, I have noticed an equality of prices in destinations over the last few years, certainly Euro destinations.

For example, Egypt, Goa, Turkey were all low cost destinations say 5 years ago. For some reason now the price of a coke, sunbed, beer, meal out is now fairly standard. Perhaps its the fact that in the begining most tourists are from the region, most developers and hotel chains are national and they charge local prices. Then as a place becomes sucessful and multinationals move in ie Hilton, Meridien, coco-cola, McDonalds etc and they charge standard western type prices to western tourists who can pay them. I cant see Morocco eventaully being any different. Its a shame from the cultural and protectionism point of view, but globalisation is a powerful force. Anyway, off topic!

Thanks again for your input and dont worry, it came across as a balanced opinion.

SS

 

[Asim]

SS,

In a roundabout answer to your question, El Oasis is offering a high quality of accomodation but the big pull is its location makes it much more accesible to get to the busy areas. The accomodation will be cheaper to rent out than the palmeraie resorts and has a higher chance of occupation, due to its location and costs. It has facilities (ok no infinity pool or golf course) to meet the requirements of families and the location to meet the requirements of city tourists, who are there for Marrakech and not just for 5* luxury.

Paul

Hi Paul

Did you see construction at the El Oasis site. Supposed to be completed by mid next year.

 

[EM Concepts]

El Oasis de Marrakech site

Asim,

Yes I did see the construction site and it is on course for completion. When you purchase a property you also sign a VEFA contract which allows you to fine the developer 1% per month if they are late completing. It also protects you against them rushing the job by making sure certain standards in build and finish are met.

I am happy to email the photos I took of the construction to you - just PM me your email. I'm not sure how to post them on the forum itself.

Paul

 

[The Soup Dragon]

EM Concepts. I agree with much of what you said, though I think there are a few developments of Oasis standard that are within striking distance of the Medina and main square.*

I do however agree that the more central apartments represent a better opportunity (from an investment perspective) as:
1) The resale market is established.
2) New builds are restricrted by available land (there are more out of town developments)
3) Resale market is to locals as well as those that like to holiday there.
That said, its horses for courses and we don't have a crystal ball to say what will appreciate more.

I'm aware that Oasis has had bad publicity in ther past. I'm not looking to knock it, its possible that diificulties it has had may mean now's a good time to get in. It presumably hasn't seen the appreciation that other developments have had in Marrakesh and now has incentives like the guaranteed rent you mention. Any information you can give as to the history of this development and publicity surrounding it coupled with stability of the companies involved will be apprecaited.

* I was to be viewing them in August, but had Gastroenteritis** and had to cancel my viewings. I did however have a look at them from the outside before I was bed ridden. I feel the build quality and area were generally very good.

** It will have been either the freshly squeezed orange juice in the main square or the pistachio nuts I had that will have led to the food poisoning.

 

[Sunnyshores]

Soup Dragon,

I'd be interested to hear which developments you think are of a good quality and "within striking distance of the medina".How do they compare pricewise to say Oasis?

Thanks, SS

PS Has anyone brought in Marrakesh yet ? There are lots of us here and looking for the past year or so. After a few false starts I've now brought on a Gardens of Fedela development in the NE, ready 2009.

 

[The Soup Dragon]

Not sure where my notes from my last trip to Morocco are, but the best value property is likely to be one that a friend may promote. Prices haven't been released, but location is good and build quality of a completed project I visited looked good. That completed property was sold at a price per square meter that was very attractive when compared to neighbouring new builds. I won't provide any further details just yet.

From memory there were a few boards for Menera Prefa on construction sites contained within triangle formed by Gueliz, Avenue de la Menera and the main square. I didn't meet with them & confess I don't know prices*, but it may be worth checking out if you haven't already.

*My trip was backloaded with appointments to meet developers (got developer details largely from covering the ground on foot in the first day or two and seeing who was constructing what.)

 

[lexie200]

Hey All,
Does anybody knows of any moroccan developers in Marrakech or Fes? I would love to get in touch with some of them for business.

Thanks,
wanata

I know of a great spanish developer who do alot in Morocco if that's any help?

 

[EM Concepts]

Gardens Of Fedala & El Oasis

SS,

I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of a couple of points about Gardens of Fedala. As a company we do now sell this but there are a couple of things that we warn all clients about before purchasing:

(1) The 9 year buyback guarantee isnt what it seems and isnt as stated in the marketing brochure and wont guarantee you being able to sell the property for the original price unless certain conditions are met

(2) The 9 year guaranteed rental backed by AXA is not insured by AXA for the full 9 years, just 2 of them

These are the main points worth noting as most agents are miss selling this resort and do not inform clients of these points. Hopefully you used one of the good ones who has done their homework and gone through the contracts etc.

Even with these points the development we feel is still good for those looking for a mix of lifestyle and investment. I still see nothing to beat El Oasis on price per SQm against location and potential returns, however it is an investment product only.

Soupdragon, you raised a couple of good points - there are definately a few developments within striking distance of the main square however these just arent suited as an investment product, which is primarily what we offer. Prices are higher, deposits are higher, rental returns I cannot see being above 10% gross however you are in a better location - really depends on what you are after.

Regarding the history of El Oasis and the bad publicity:

The publicity has mainly been around Dreamword and their Tangiers resort, this has then reflected onto the Marrakech development. I'm not aware of any major issues with Marrakech - the pricing structure changed a couple of times when first launched and there was their own guarantee package which was not underwritten. For the last few months the prices have been set at €1550 per square metre and the rent guarantee offered by a third party, underwritten by a large German insurance company.

El Oasis now offers better security than most developments. For example, you have a VEFA contract and bank guarantee on the development build itself. On Fedala you do not get this. I could go on about the differences for a long time, the point I'm trying to make is that both of these developments are good for different reasons. In fact every development in Marrakech will have a buyer suited to it somewhere. We are looking at providing maximum capital and rental returns for our clients and are at investment with just a hint of lifestyle thrown in if wanted.

El Oasis at the moment fits the bill on that front and at the moment the well located units are selling fast. Certain styles with large terraces, units overlooking the central area are all now limited availability. The price doesnt change according to location so for resale purposes its important to get a well located apartment and the best ones will be gone this year for sure.

Fedala fits some of our investors better and again, there are units and areas of the resort (nearer the Atlas mountains, face to the West for the sunset etc etc) which are more popular and should be considered when purchasing.

Paul