margarita isle

[The Great Gatsby]

Will the problem with Caracola not be selling it???
If there ends up being 1200 units as planned - then there aren´t going to be any resales for a very long time and once there are resales, surely oversupply of the same types of apartment in the same complex is going to dilute the prices as everyone tries to exit????

That would be my major worry.

So far as crime figures etc - same as most holiday locations. Every day in every resort there is crime.
I lived and worked in Caracas for 2 years - I was security conscious of course - but had no problems at all and its apparently a lot more dangerous there.
Dont go anywhere lonely - alone. Dont wander around covered in Bling! Use your common sense like you would if you were in any foreign country.

I visit Margarita regularly as well as many other places in the region and have family in the peninsula.
Personally I think the best investments there are resale apartments. Off-plan projects are looking a little over priced now, although there are still some excellent opportunities. The problem with is they are marketed and priced for Europeans who have Euros.
This is not only obvious to those that know the local market but I have heard this from the horses mouth - last time I was there I had a meeting with more than one agent/developer who would not give me bolivar prices for their properties because they were for expats.

When I compared the Euro prices with the bolivar prices (easily obtained from the promotion booths in Sambil Mall) there was quite a mark-up.

The best deals come from researching the island, getting out there and getting to know the place. If you can get someone (preferably a Venezuelan) to put your offers in on properties then you will achieve realistic prices.

Money exchange generally isnt a problem - I´ve moved money in and out on the black market for years with no problems. I have a trusted lawyer who does this for me and a broker in Caracas who I have used in the past.

Just so yo know I am an agent, but am new to the game so am trying to get feedback about the areas im selling. I thought about the exit strategy issue. But as long as you buy a good unit in the teen floors and realize that you have to sell well before the ten year rental ends or well after you should be o.k

Is it a good location though as I am aware that there are cheaper products marketed to the local non-gringo market so is it worth paying the premium? Build quality should be good. What is the build quality like at the mo. I personally would go for the similar project Punta Perla on the Dom Republic as this is a more unique desirable end product especially on Star Island.

 

[Pharaoh]

More reasons NOT to invest in Margarita, Coche or Venezuela in General

MORE BAD NEWS.......CRIME NOW REACHING ISLA COCHE

.:: EL SOL DE MARGARITA ::.

Armed gangs enter hotel at night and rob guests at gun point......


Yeah, Margarita / Coche is really a place to invest !!

 

[andyintheworld]

Yawn....

name any city, island or location anywhere on the planet and Im sure there is an amount of crime...
Miami, London, Paris, Madrid, Barbados, Cuba, Tenerife, Costa del Sol, Dominican Republic... BRAZIL!!!!! - massive amounts of property investments - any idea of the crime figures in Brazil???!!!!

Stop picking on one place and dredging up any negative press you can find, its tedious and subjective unless you can compare directly with everywhere else.
You obviously have some personal grudge against the place - probably lost some money there no doubts....

 

[Pharaoh]

Yawn....

name any city, island or location anywhere on the planet and Im sure there is an amount of crime...
Miami, London, Paris, Madrid, Barbados, Cuba, Tenerife, Costa del Sol, Dominican Republic... BRAZIL!!!!! - massive amounts of property investments - any idea of the crime figures in Brazil???!!!!

Stop picking on one place and dredging up any negative press you can find, its tedious and subjective unless you can compare directly with everywhere else.
You obviously have some personal grudge against the place - probably lost some money there no doubts....

piss off.......where are you ?
You are just trying to make money................I thankfully got ALL of mymoney out, and in $$$

 

[andyintheworld]

Who is just trying to make money???
What are you talking about? - I dont sell or promote anything on these forums....

You have also contradicted yourself here:

"You are just trying to make money................I thankfully got ALL of mymoney out, and in $$$"

Earlier in this thread you told everyone not to buy there because:

"But you try and sell and get your money back into sterling or Euros is very very hard........plus you are breaking Venezuelan law (punishable by imprisonment if detected)"

Seems you managed to get your money changed though.... And if you got it out one year ago you lost on the exchange rate - and lost a lot. Which probably explains your bitterness towards the place.

Next time you wish to throw your accusations around and tell people to pi55 off - do a bit of research first - clown.

 

[Pharaoh]

Who is just trying to make money???
What are you talking about? - I dont sell or promote anything on these forums....

You have also contradicted yourself here:

"You are just trying to make money................I thankfully got ALL of mymoney out, and in $$$"

Earlier in this thread you told everyone not to buy there because:

"But you try and sell and get your money back into sterling or Euros is very very hard........plus you are breaking Venezuelan law (punishable by imprisonment if detected)"

Seems you managed to get your money changed though.... And if you got it out one year ago you lost on the exchange rate - and lost a lot. Which probably explains your bitterness towards the place.

Next time you wish to throw your accusations around and tell people to pi55 off - do a bit of research first - clown.

Einstein, I had a $$ buyer for my unit, so had it transferred directly, and a year ago, it cost less to buy a $$ than now on the blackmarket. I dont need research, I lived there for 7 yrs......you ?
And I will say what I like !!

 

[andyintheworld]

A year ago a dollar cost a hell of a lot more to buy than it does today - NOT LESS

The Bolivar has appreciated against the dollar - I know this because I move currency in and out of the country 3 or 4 times a year and profit on the currency swings.

Your posts about Margarita are completely subjective and your tone is very negative - almost bitter.

"And I will say what I like !!" - saying I am here only to make money is completely incorrect as I have told you - you then tell me to p*ss off? For this - I believe you are a waste of space - I dont come on here to insult or be insulted.

Please buy a box of tissues to wipe away the bile you are spitting - be objective and useful in your posts or just dont bother.

And I am now absolutely positive you lost money in Margarita ....

 

[Pharaoh]

A year ago a dollar cost a hell of a lot more to buy than it does today - NOT LESS

The Bolivar has appreciated against the dollar - I know this because I move currency in and out of the country 3 or 4 times a year and profit on the currency swings.

Your posts about Margarita are completely subjective and your tone is very negative - almost bitter.

"And I will say what I like !!" - saying I am here only to make money is completely incorrect as I have told you - you then tell me to p*ss off? For this - I believe you are a waste of space - I dont come on here to insult or be insulted.

Please buy a box of tissues to wipe away the bile you are spitting - be objective and useful in your posts or just dont bother.

And I am now absolutely positive you lost money in Margarita ....

yes, sorry you are correct, to buy a $ then was probably near 5,000 bs. My mistake. I wont change my mind though on Vz in general......not a safe investment

 

[Markp]

Carcola is a really well researched project that offers everything a forward thinking overseas property investor should be looking for.

People are talking about exchange rates etc etc getting money out.

Buy it in a company.
Any good lawyer will set uo a straight forward system.

Margarita Island is nice and has a whole lists of reasons why ot should increase in value.
Speak to a sensiable agent and then do some research of your own. Most of all get out there. I have not been, but heard nothing but good about it, Kite sailing, good weather, cheap goods, fine Rum and lots of tourist planning for the future.....

Yawn....

name any city, island or location anywhere on the planet and Im sure there is an amount of crime...
Miami, London, Paris, Madrid, Barbados, Cuba, Tenerife, Costa del Sol, Dominican Republic... BRAZIL!!!!! - massive amounts of property investments - any idea of the crime figures in Brazil???!!!!

Stop picking on one place and dredging up any negative press you can find, its tedious and subjective unless you can compare directly with everywhere else.
You obviously have some personal grudge against the place - probably lost some money there no doubts....

 

[andyintheworld]

"Carcola is a really well researched project that offers everything a forward thinking overseas property investor should be looking for."

Except an exit strategy....
I like Margarita too and believe there are some excellent investments there. But I dont think Caracola is one of them - mainly due to there being 1200 units planned.
There aren´t going to be any resales for a very long time and once there are resales, surely oversupply of the same types of apartment in the same complex is going to dilute the prices as everyone tries to cash out?

 

[Markp]

There are two exit straegies to my mind,
Flipping a good located unit, as it has a long build time.
Sit on it for a mid term investment and either sell or refinance it after several years.

The market there is growing both in prices, demand and finance products.
1200 units there might look a lot now, but this is a really fast growing market and has all the indicators, with demand for property, stable and growing economy, tourist plans to be a very good market in years to come. Buying now you have the potential to make real profit in years to come.

Yeah if you want to sell right after it has been built and there are still off plan apartments left, then it is a consideration, but.....

There are lots of "yeah buts..." out there: If you can afford one, my advice is that this is a good one


QUOTE=andyintheworld;62859]"Carcola is a really well researched project that offers everything a forward thinking overseas property investor should be looking for."

Except an exit strategy....
I like Margarita too and believe there are some excellent investments there. But I dont think Caracola is one of them - mainly due to there being 1200 units planned.
There aren´t going to be any resales for a very long time and once there are resales, surely oversupply of the same types of apartment in the same complex is going to dilute the prices as everyone tries to cash out?[/QUOTE]

 

[andyintheworld]

There are two exit straegies to my mind,
Flipping a good located unit, as it has a long build time.
Sit on it for a mid term investment and either sell or refinance it after several years.

The market there is growing both in prices, demand and finance products.
1200 units there might look a lot now, but this is a really fast growing market and has all the indicators, with demand for property, stable and growing economy, tourist plans to be a very good market in years to come. Buying now you have the potential to make real profit in years to come.

How can you refinance these?? There are - as far as I am aware - no financing options available to expatriates anywhere in Venezuela. But if you know of any - Im all ears!!! - As long as its not "developers finance".

Also, will people really pay a premium on the developers price for a well-placed unit before the project is complete? I´m not sure "flipping" is going to work in this instance - BECAUSE of the long build time and high quantity of units.

Last Winds resort looks like its going to have similar problems for investors.

 

[Markp]

1) developements over the course of the build out have price increases.
Therefore buying now will be less than buying in 18 months.
the difference between these two figures is profit, if sucessfully flipped

2) there are several banks making moves in this area for exactly the reason of offering mortgage finance to overseas owners, like they did in Dubai, like they did in Dominican Republic, and like they always do in markets with growing residential tourism- They like to see it happen before they start offering alsorts of products, but they will

3) going in early, you have to satisfy yourself with SOME of the questions you are asking, however offer the better returns

How can you refinance these?? There are - as far as I am aware - no financing options available to expatriates anywhere in Venezuela. But if you know of any - Im all ears!!! - As long as its not "developers finance".

Also, will people really pay a premium on the developers price for a well-placed unit before the project is complete? I´m not sure "flipping" is going to work in this instance - BECAUSE of the long build time and high quantity of units.

Last Winds resort looks like its going to have similar problems for investors.

 

[andyintheworld]

The price increases make sense to flipping then - as long as - as you say - you can sell on.
I have lots of experience in Mortgages both in the UK and overseas and know the products available in Duabi, the Dom Rep and the rest of the Caribbean. But - the Venezuelan banking system is vastly different and this is something I dont see happening for a long, long time - if ever.
Id love to be proved wrong on this - I really hope I will be - but I cant even see how they can offer mortgages to expatriates.

Local currency is "locked" and pegged against the dollar.
Mortgage rates for residents start at about 10% interest and go to 70% Loan to value, but are only available if you have lived and worked in the country for at least two years.

There are a couple of agents kicking about on the forum who live in Margarita - perhaps they can elaborate on the future possibility of expatriate mortgages?

 

[ADRIANALLGOOD]

Margarita is a great place to buy right now. however you should until october for when the black market exchange rate goes up, like it does every year. you should purchase land. If you need more info let me know.

 

[ADRIANALLGOOD]

DO NOT PURCHASE AT CARACOLA, flats are not a good investment. If you want to purchase in margarita , purchase land or villas. I know the venezuela market very well, if you want to see a good return on your money listen to me.

 

[OPH]

oohhh a sweeping statement eh?

DO NOT PURCHASE AT CARACOLA, flats are not a good investment. If you want to purchase in margarita , purchase land or villas. I know the venezuela market very well, if you want to see a good return on your money listen to me.

Adrian

Whats wrong with Caracola? and back up what you´re saying with figures please not just sweeping statements.........

Caracola is SIPP compliant, tax efficient, carries a minimum 7% guaranteed rental for 10 years backed by fidelity bond (increasing to 8.25% after 5 years if occupancy stays constant) and has a 70% LTV mortgage available...............with entry as low as just US$41,000 or 20,500 GBP, its probably one of the soundest and secure investments around at the moment!

Back up your sweeping statements with facts please!

OPH

 

[ADRIANALLGOOD]

Adrian

Whats wrong with Caracola? and back up what you´re saying with figures please not just sweeping statements.........

Caracola is SIPP compliant, tax efficient, carries a minimum 7% guaranteed rental for 10 years backed by fidelity bond (increasing to 8.25% after 5 years if occupancy stays constant) and has a 70% LTV mortgage available...............with entry as low as just US$41,000 or 20,500 GBP, its probably one of the soundest and secure investments around at the moment!

Back up your sweeping statements with facts please!

OPH

what you have to understand those guarantees are not worth anything.
Venezuela has a currency control, you are not aloud to deal with any other currency then the bolivar. the official rate of the bolivar is 2100blv per 1$us,but the black market rate goes up and down right now the black market rate is about 3400 last year it was about 6500blv per $. you could check out the daily black market rate at controldecambio dot com and click on Dolar Paralelo and click on dolar paralelo.
If you want to invest in magarita you should do it when the exchange is high that happens usualy every year a few months before crismast, due to the fact that there is a high demand for the dollar. In venezuela it's illegal to have any type of transaction or contract in any other currency but the bolivar. So when your guaranteed 7% it's not on the price you paid on the unit in GBP but on the amount in bolivars, which if a 1000 000 blv today it's worth 20 000GBP in six month in myth be worth half.

 

[andyintheworld]

This is something which worries me too about Rental Guarantees in Venezuela.
There doesnt seem to be a legal way of guaranteeing anything other than by way of a Venezuelan contract to pay out in local currency - which fluctuates by as much as 40% during any 12 months.

I had a developer ask me to market a project with a 7% "guarantee" and I told him that I didnt want to use any type of guarantee as there was no way of legally enforcing it. HE AGREED!!! but said he felt obliged to offer one as all his competition were using them.

The problem is - if a company later reneges on the guarantee for whatever reason - who is the client going to complain to?

Venezuelan government will not recognise any contract alluding to hard currency unless it is subject to the "ley de cambios" which I believe comes under the authority - CADIVI.

The construction company for Caracola is Venezuelan but the promoter is Spanish and based in Spain. So unless the contract was written under Spanish law as opposed to Venezuelan there would be no chance of taking a company to court.

Even if a client did take legal action I dont know what the end result would be, given the guarantee is from a Spanish company in Spain on a Venezuelan property registered in Venezuela - and I wouldnt like to have to find out.

As mentioned previously - Caracolas main problem is exit strategy due to the scale of the project and the number of investors who will be looking to exit at the same time.

Unless someone could clarify the obvious problems with rental guarantees - I wouldnt consider the guarantee a selling point.

 

[andyintheworld]

Good effort.... another attempt at a negative post which looks to have failed miserably....


LOOK!!!! if you seriously want to diss the place and have a magnificent reason to do so. I am guessing you want people to take your opinion seriously (I really will),please provide facts, figures, names, numbers, - anything that lets us know you´re not just another bitter expat who has lost money in X country.

There are many, many people who have lost, I really have to suspect you are one of them as you do nothing but criticize. Please tell us what went wrong for you and how others can avoid making the same mistakes. If you are too embarrassed to tell everyone then so be it, but you are unlikely to gain much recognition as an authority on your subject unless you do.

For example:

I am an Egypt agent - I will therefore spam every other forum subcategory telling everyone how rubbish there chosen area is....

It´s not gonna be long before people figure out that your opinions are not objective. So, provide info, testimonial and facts or dont bother.