margarita isle

T

timberheadnot

New Member
lol posting this twice meant to post here not where i did lol

We live in the US and are seriously looking into moving/buying a rental property on Margarita Island and being that we have no idea what that would all entail we need HELP lol ))) Can you truly earn a living by doing so? The logistics of island living... I have been looking at photos of the Island, supplies look to be plentiful, are they always? As a Property owner what are the taxes . If you would serve food and alcohol are there permits that you need? It is of coarse a new country to us and I am just trying to find out anything I can so as to make an educated choice on moving there. Knowing what the laws and regulations are for rental property would be very helpful. also the banking system is of interest i.e. how do most places deal with handling money and exchanges. also if you have any information about schools(we have a middle school age child) would be greatly appreciated. And of course if you think of anything that I really should know about and have not asked yet... that would be great!
 
S

Shar

New Member
Margarita will offer fantastic opportunities for investors.
I am aware that the infrastructure in well on the way, backed by major financiers and discussions to build a F1 track are being finalized, flights are due to improve from the UK and above all the property prices are looking very reasonable.
 
J

jose

New Member
if you wil have more information of real estate in Margarita Island look to realestatecaribean. com They are also working with a good lawyer.

Regards,

Jose
 
A

anna2

New Member
How does Margarita cmopare to the better know Caribean destinations?
 
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PeixeGato

New Member
I'll have to say that as an American, I was very weary of investing in Venezuela given their current leadership. But after the defeat of his Constitutional referrendum (i.e. his attempt to become a dictator),I am taking another look at the island. Of course, he still remains a wild card, as he could easily refuse to give up power at the end of his term, but it was promising to see that the people of Venezuela can see through his thinly veiled attempts to take dictatorial control of the country.

Greg
 
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propertyborders

New Member
This Island looks very interesting for investors I would like to hear more about it.
 
B

BPR

New Member
The real reason why Margarita Island is a great investment

It's the cost of living. Most people who move here or want to move here are doing so to get more lifestyle out of their fixed income.

Here's an example:

Basics:

Meats- Good Argentinean beef is available at a very low cost. It's grass-fed, well-marbled and has a lot of flavor. Cooking beef on the parilla (BBQ) is a popular way to cook beef, so the beef tends to come in large chunks appropriate for grilling. Several of the popular cuts are:

Pollo de Res $1.15 per pound
Solomo de Cuerito $1.90 per pound
Punta Trasera $1.90 per pound
New York Strip Steak $2.45 per pound
Lomito (tenderloin) $3.20 per pound


For the same price, one can get these cuts marinated for the BBQ, plain, or frozen. One can occasionally find all of these cuts of meat at the "official" price of $1.00 per pound, frozen, in very large pieces of 10 pounds or more.

Hamburger costs $1.00 per pound, but it's really good hamburger without a lot of added fat. Pot Roast is the same cost. Chicken (when one can find it) costs 75 cents per pound for whole chickens, and fresh fish ranges in price from $2.00 per pound up to $7.00 per pound, depending on the type of fish, season and availability. Frozen shrimp (peeled, cleaned) cost $9.00 for 800 grams, and whole frozen salmon costs $1.75 per pound.

At Pollos Cacique, a popular roast chicken restaurant, a large roasted chicken costs $6.00, and that comes with some arepas and salsa for the chicken. The chicken from Pollos Cacique is excellent, and with some steamed vegetables makes a great meal.

Vegetables- The basic foodstuffs are almost completely organically produced, and much healthier than the stuff one buys in "developed" countries. Here are some prices of fresh produce from our last trip to the grocery store:

Potatoes 20 cents per pound
Onions 45 cents per pound
Tomatoes 45 cents per pound
Mangos 45 cents per pound
Cauliflower 50 cents per pound
Oranges 35 cents per pound
Zucchini Squash 35 cents per pound
Carrots 40 cents per pound
Cantaloupe 50 cents per pound
Limes 30 cents per pound
Romaine Lettuce 50 cents per pound
Bell Peppers 70 cents per pound
Avocado 95 cents per pound
String Beans 77 cents per pound

There are plenty of tropical fruits and veggies that defy explanation. One has to find an instructor to learn about all the tropical fruits and how to prepare and consume them. That's way beyond the scope of this article.
Dairy:

Cheese (sliced) is right at $3.00 per pound for excellent real cheese (not processed cheese-flavored product),and real Buffalo Mozzarella is about $4.00 per pound.

Fresh milk has not been available on the Island since May of last year, due to price controls that make it more profitable for dairies to sell their milk to cheese factories or export it out of the country. Recently President Chavez threatened to nationalize dairies that didn't sell fresh milk for domestic consumption... but we doubt if that will correct the problem. The real problem is that price controls don't work.

Powered milk is $2.90 per pound, and an 800 gram package makes about 3 gallons. Interestingly, the powered milk here doesn't taste like the powered milk one gets in the US... the stuff here doesn't have the "powered milk" taste to it.

Butter costs about $1.50 per pound for excellent real butter. We don't buy margarine...

Staples:

Coffee is about 50 cents per pound and beans are about 30 to 70 cents per pound. Flour is difficult to find right now, but when available it's about 40 cents per pound. Mayonnaise is a dollar per jar, ketchup is about the same, and so on and so on.

Beer, Wine and Liquor

Any alcoholic beverage benefits from the fact that Margarita is a free port with no taxes. Beer is $5.00 per case for premium beer, less for the standard products. Beer from the US is not available here. Chilean wine is a great value, with good quality table wine costing $2.00 to $3.00 per bottle and better quality wine (Casillero del Diablo) costs $6.00 per bottle. Premium wine such as Navarro Correa Private Reserve Ultra (select vintage years only) costs about $20.00 per bottle. There is a wide selection of wines from South America, Italy and France, but very little wine from the US.

Venezuelans drink a lot of whiskey. In fact, we're told that Venezuela consumes more Chivas Regal than all the rest of South America put together. One would think that was ridiculous until one spends some time watching these people drink.

Liquors (bottles are 1-liter):

Good Venezuelan Rum: $2.70 per bottle
Anniversario Premium Rum: $19.90 per bottle
Bacardi Rum $2.75 per bottle
Johnny Walker Black Label: $23.00 per bottle
Dewars Scotch 18 years: $32.00 per bottle
Stolichnaya Vodka: $8.00 per bottle
Chivas Regal 18 year Scotch: $32.20 per bottle
Chivas Regal 12 year Scotch: $26.60 per bottle
Buchanan's Whiskey: $22.00 per bottle
Old Pharr: $23.00 per bottle

Of course, gasoline is about 1 pence per liter, so you can literally fill your tank with pocket change.

Cheers from Margarita.
 
K

KDJX

New Member
It's the cost of living. Most people who move here or want to move here are doing so to get more lifestyle out of their fixed income.

Here's an example:

Basics:

Meats- Good Argentinean beef is available at a very low cost. It's grass-fed, well-marbled and has a lot of flavor. Cooking beef on the parilla (BBQ) is a popular way to cook beef, so the beef tends to come in large chunks appropriate for grilling. Several of the popular cuts are:

Pollo de Res $1.15 per pound
Solomo de Cuerito $1.90 per pound
Punta Trasera $1.90 per pound
New York Strip Steak $2.45 per pound
Lomito (tenderloin) $3.20 per pound


For the same price, one can get these cuts marinated for the BBQ, plain, or frozen. One can occasionally find all of these cuts of meat at the "official" price of $1.00 per pound, frozen, in very large pieces of 10 pounds or more.

Hamburger costs $1.00 per pound, but it's really good hamburger without a lot of added fat. Pot Roast is the same cost. Chicken (when one can find it) costs 75 cents per pound for whole chickens, and fresh fish ranges in price from $2.00 per pound up to $7.00 per pound, depending on the type of fish, season and availability. Frozen shrimp (peeled, cleaned) cost $9.00 for 800 grams, and whole frozen salmon costs $1.75 per pound.

At Pollos Cacique, a popular roast chicken restaurant, a large roasted chicken costs $6.00, and that comes with some arepas and salsa for the chicken. The chicken from Pollos Cacique is excellent, and with some steamed vegetables makes a great meal.

Vegetables- The basic foodstuffs are almost completely organically produced, and much healthier than the stuff one buys in "developed" countries. Here are some prices of fresh produce from our last trip to the grocery store:

Potatoes 20 cents per pound
Onions 45 cents per pound
Tomatoes 45 cents per pound
Mangos 45 cents per pound
Cauliflower 50 cents per pound
Oranges 35 cents per pound
Zucchini Squash 35 cents per pound
Carrots 40 cents per pound
Cantaloupe 50 cents per pound
Limes 30 cents per pound
Romaine Lettuce 50 cents per pound
Bell Peppers 70 cents per pound
Avocado 95 cents per pound
String Beans 77 cents per pound

There are plenty of tropical fruits and veggies that defy explanation. One has to find an instructor to learn about all the tropical fruits and how to prepare and consume them. That's way beyond the scope of this article.
Dairy:

Cheese (sliced) is right at $3.00 per pound for excellent real cheese (not processed cheese-flavored product),and real Buffalo Mozzarella is about $4.00 per pound.

Fresh milk has not been available on the Island since May of last year, due to price controls that make it more profitable for dairies to sell their milk to cheese factories or export it out of the country. Recently President Chavez threatened to nationalize dairies that didn't sell fresh milk for domestic consumption... but we doubt if that will correct the problem. The real problem is that price controls don't work.

Powered milk is $2.90 per pound, and an 800 gram package makes about 3 gallons. Interestingly, the powered milk here doesn't taste like the powered milk one gets in the US... the stuff here doesn't have the "powered milk" taste to it.

Butter costs about $1.50 per pound for excellent real butter. We don't buy margarine...

Staples:

Coffee is about 50 cents per pound and beans are about 30 to 70 cents per pound. Flour is difficult to find right now, but when available it's about 40 cents per pound. Mayonnaise is a dollar per jar, ketchup is about the same, and so on and so on.

Beer, Wine and Liquor

Any alcoholic beverage benefits from the fact that Margarita is a free port with no taxes. Beer is $5.00 per case for premium beer, less for the standard products. Beer from the US is not available here. Chilean wine is a great value, with good quality table wine costing $2.00 to $3.00 per bottle and better quality wine (Casillero del Diablo) costs $6.00 per bottle. Premium wine such as Navarro Correa Private Reserve Ultra (select vintage years only) costs about $20.00 per bottle. There is a wide selection of wines from South America, Italy and France, but very little wine from the US.

Venezuelans drink a lot of whiskey. In fact, we're told that Venezuela consumes more Chivas Regal than all the rest of South America put together. One would think that was ridiculous until one spends some time watching these people drink.

Liquors (bottles are 1-liter):

Good Venezuelan Rum: $2.70 per bottle
Anniversario Premium Rum: $19.90 per bottle
Bacardi Rum $2.75 per bottle
Johnny Walker Black Label: $23.00 per bottle
Dewars Scotch 18 years: $32.00 per bottle
Stolichnaya Vodka: $8.00 per bottle
Chivas Regal 18 year Scotch: $32.20 per bottle
Chivas Regal 12 year Scotch: $26.60 per bottle
Buchanan's Whiskey: $22.00 per bottle
Old Pharr: $23.00 per bottle

Of course, gasoline is about 1 pence per liter, so you can literally fill your tank with pocket change.

Cheers from Margarita.
You have covered just about everything we could possibly need ...but what about Kelloggs Cornflakes ?
 
B

BPR

New Member
You have covered just about everything we could possibly need ...but what about Kelloggs Cornflakes ?
About $3 per large box.

I don't buy the prepackaged preprocessed stuff when there is real food to be had and the maid only costs us $300 per month for full-time cooking and cleaning, 5 days a week.
 
P

Pharaoh

New Member
Heres the REAL truth on Margarita

I, like many of you work hard for my money and look to forums such as this for unbiased and informed advise (which I am going to share) with you about Margarita Island (M.I.)
So I hope the moderator doesnt delete or edit.

I actually lived on MI for 7 yrs FULL TIME and left almost a year ago now.....so I like to think I know what I am talking about.
I owned a property which I purchased some 5 yrs ago (which was the best time to invest by the way.....not now)
My reason for posting this is to pass on my extensive knowledge...thats all.

M.I. Is indeed a charming Island, but it is a country in dire economical straits. Inflation is at 29.3% YTD (officially) but is nearer 40% in reality.
check out www dot veneconomy dot com

The currency is the Boilvar Fuerte or (Bfs),which was adopted on the 1st Jan 2008, replacing the plain old Bolivar. The only difference is they knocked off 3 zeros.
Eg. 1000 Bolivars is now 1 bf

There are 2 currency rates that exist, official and blackmarket.
Official is $1 usd equals 2 bf, blackmarket $1 / 3bf...........this is NOW
The blackmarket rate was almost $1 to 5.8 bf only 6 months ago !
This is when M.I was a cheap destination to live or holiday at..........Imagaine, you could change $1000 and get almost 6000 bf.................more than enough to live on for 2 months like a king on M.I.................now with hyper inflation and blackmarket rate way down, alot of things are now cheaper in Europe (not property) cost of living.

Now property.............what the agents and developers DONT tell you is that when you want to sell (which is hard enough anyway),that the sale has to be done in Bf. This is the law.
The Notarias are much more controlled now, so insist on seeing evidence of the transaction being carried out in Bf.
When you buy a property from the many UK or Irish developers now touting M.I. They accept your sterling or Euro payment..........BECAUSE they can and are not breaking the law, as their accounts are either UK based or Euro based.
But you try and sell and get your money back into sterling or Euros is very very hard........plus you are breaking Venezuelan law (punishable by imprisonment if detected)
The only people who are investing in the many buildings sprouting up everywhere are the locals........why ?
They can get loans from banks at 23% (crazy),but better than the 50% it was and invest it in property as they see this as better than having money in the banks as inflation outstrips intertest !

Claims of Formula One and golfing projetcs are at best “Pie in the sky”. I actually called the Formula One headquaters in Paris (F.I.A) and they knew nothing of it.
As for golf, there are 2 courses at present on M.I. One has been in legal wranglings for 7 yrs and has nevr been played on (oppossite Hilton Hotel),the other is located at the North of the Island and is at best “parched”

Water is a precious commodity on M.I. And it is common place in high season for buildings (especially in Porlamar) to ration water daily. Turning on for an hour in the mornings, afternoons and nights..............so new golf courses being built.......?????

M.I. Is also a “long haul” destination, so rentals are very very hard to sustain long enough to make it a performer in your portfolio.

If after reading this, you are still intent on buying there, ask for documentary eveidence from developers or agents making such claims. At best you be sent a link to a glossy mag or newspaper article.....nothing concrete.
 
B

BPR

New Member
I, like many of you work hard for my money and look to forums such as this for unbiased and informed advise (which I am going to share) with you about Margarita Island (M.I.)
So I hope the moderator doesnt delete or edit.

I actually lived on MI for 7 yrs FULL TIME and left almost a year ago now.....so I like to think I know what I am talking about.
I owned a property which I purchased some 5 yrs ago (which was the best time to invest by the way.....not now)
My reason for posting this is to pass on my extensive knowledge...thats all.

M.I. Is indeed a charming Island, but it is a country in dire economical straits. Inflation is at 29.3% YTD (officially) but is nearer 40% in reality.
check out www dot veneconomy dot com

The currency is the Boilvar Fuerte or (Bfs),which was adopted on the 1st Jan 2008, replacing the plain old Bolivar. The only difference is they knocked off 3 zeros.
Eg. 1000 Bolivars is now 1 bf

There are 2 currency rates that exist, official and blackmarket.
Official is $1 usd equals 2 bf, blackmarket $1 / 3bf...........this is NOW
The blackmarket rate was almost $1 to 5.8 bf only 6 months ago !
This is when M.I was a cheap destination to live or holiday at..........Imagaine, you could change $1000 and get almost 6000 bf.................more than enough to live on for 2 months like a king on M.I.................now with hyper inflation and blackmarket rate way down, alot of things are now cheaper in Europe (not property) cost of living.
Pharoh

In the interests of unbiased information, let's explain the whole story. You lived on Margarita Island, and I still live here.

First, you would have bought property here in 2002, if your story is correct. In other words, you bought property here year of the oil strike in 2002, which followed the attempted coup against Chavez in 2002. Massive political unrest, violence, fear, and people were selling for a song.

Yep, you bought when there was "blood in the streets" and you can pat yourself on the back for that. Most people don't do that, however. Most people wait until things stabilize a bit before buying property in a country that's had problems. Currently, the property prices on Margarita have recently reached the (inflation adjusted) levels they were at in 1997, prior to Chavez being elected.

Given the economic issues involved, property values here have a long way to go.

During the time you claim to have lived on Margarita, the free-market rate for Bolivares was between 2.5 and 2.7 for most of that time. The rate didn't start rising rapidly until late 2006, and it was in 2007 that it went up to 6000 or more per dollar. It's now gone back down to where it probably should be, keeping in track with the historical trend. Back up and look at the big picture, and yes, you were living like a king for a period of about 1 year because of the exchange rate. What about the rest of the time?

Even at an exchange rate of 3.4 to the Dollar (Friday's rate),the cost of living is still cheap compared to Europe, Canada or the US. Property costs are one thing, but the cost of living is what you have to pay day in and day out, year after year.

Calling this a country in dire economic straights is ludicrous. With oil WELL over $100 per barrel, this country has enormous financial resources. We don't have hyper-inflation, we have Latin-American style inflation, brought on by GROWTH. Zimbabwe has hyper-inflation, look it up. Venezuela is averaging 10% GDP growth year over year for the past 5 years. All that growth and oil money tends to have an effect, and it's called inflation.


Now property.............what the agents and developers DONT tell you is that when you want to sell (which is hard enough anyway),that the sale has to be done in Bf. This is the law.
The Notarias are much more controlled now, so insist on seeing evidence of the transaction being carried out in Bf.
When you buy a property from the many UK or Irish developers now touting M.I. They accept your sterling or Euro payment..........BECAUSE they can and are not breaking the law, as their accounts are either UK based or Euro based.
But you try and sell and get your money back into sterling or Euros is very very hard........plus you are breaking Venezuelan law (punishable by imprisonment if detected)
The only people who are investing in the many buildings sprouting up everywhere are the locals........why ?
They can get loans from banks at 23% (crazy),but better than the 50% it was and invest it in property as they see this as better than having money in the banks as inflation outstrips intertest !
Yes, the law requires sale in Bolivares, but this is easy to deal with, legally and effectively:

Anyone who wants to buy property here and sell it for Sterling, Dollars or Euro only has to create a simple holding company (US, Canadian, Panamanian, etc.) and put the property in the name of the company. When one wants to sell the property, transfer the shares of stock to the new owner and accept whatever form of payment is desired. The registered ownership of the property doesn't change in Venezuela because the same company still owns it, but the owners of the company have changed.

Doing it this way keeps all the tax issues, accounting issues, and "official" language issues in English. Selling the property this way avoids the transfer taxes, Venezuelan income taxes, and 90% of the legal fees. Really, there isn't any good reason not to own the property like this. Put the property in a Panamanian company and avoid all capital gains taxes.

As far as selling property, the market is almost completely Venezuelan. If you have a property that a Venezuelan would want at a reasonable price, it sells very quickly. In other words, the closer it is to Sambil Mall, the better. With all the money the government is pumping into the lower economic classes, the businessmen in this country are getting rich. They're buying property, and Margarita Island is always considered a good investment location.

Claims of Formula One and golfing projetcs are at best “Pie in the sky”. I actually called the Formula One headquaters in Paris (F.I.A) and they knew nothing of it.
As for golf, there are 2 courses at present on M.I. One has been in legal wranglings for 7 yrs and has nevr been played on (oppossite Hilton Hotel),the other is located at the North of the Island and is at best “parched”

Water is a precious commodity on M.I. And it is common place in high season for buildings (especially in Porlamar) to ration water daily. Turning on for an hour in the mornings, afternoons and nights..............so new golf courses being built.......?????
Mostly true. There are F1 people here in Venezuela who say the project is going in, along with a Formula 1 driving school. That may have a lot to do with the price of gasoline in this country. Maybe you have great connections with the Formula 1 people in Paris and speak fluent French, so they told you the real scoop. I don't, so I didn't call them. OTOH, you may have talked to a clerk who gave you the easy answer to get rid of you: "NO" Vamos avez.

Nobody plays golf here. Why they have the courses is beyond me.

Water issues are much better than when you lived here. They doubled the water pressure coming to the Island last year (about the time you left?),which means they doubled the output, and there is another undersea pipeline currently being put in that will quadruple the amount of water coming to the Island.



M.I. Is also a “long haul” destination, so rentals are very very hard to sustain long enough to make it a performer in your portfolio.

If after reading this, you are still intent on buying there, ask for documentary eveidence from developers or agents making such claims. At best you be sent a link to a glossy mag or newspaper article.....nothing concrete.
Long haul???

Margarita island is only 25 miles from the mainland. That's not much of a long haul.

80% of the tourism on this island is Venezuelan. If someone want to make rental income, the big market is the Venezuelan market. If one wants to rent to Venezuelans one has to have a property that's in the area where they want to stay. They come to the Island to party, relax, drink, shop, drink, go dancing, drink, go out to eat, and maybe spend some time with friends and family... drinking. All the bars, restaurants, discos, shops and (most important) their friends, are in the Pampatar and Costa Azul areas. During high season it can take an hour to drive from El Agua down to the Pampatar area, so most Venezuelans don't want to stay there. Only the kids stay up there, because they're more into the beach and bedroom scene. The adults, they want the city.

I have several friends here who maintain about a 60%-65% occupancy rate on their rental properties, year-round, which is pretty good when one considers the vacation rental rate. Their properties are in the Pampatar and Costa Azul... that is, within 10 minutes driving time of the Sambil Mall. For them, it's a business, and they work at it.

There are several developments in the El Agua area that have worked out deals with the large All Inclusive hotels, and instead of expanding the hotels are managing and renting the apartments. That's the only deal I know of in the El Agua area. As for rentals in places like Juan Griego and La Guardia, forget it. Nobody rents there.
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
lets agree to disagree

I see you have a company, so of course you will say positive things & my remark of "longhaul" is for Europeans. Vz is living hand to mouth by OIL. Chavez is giving it away to popularise his image amongst other SA countries.

Tell me BRIAN are basics still in short (non exsistent) supply in Supermarkets......eggs, chicken, oil, ,milk, baby formula, rice, etc etc.

Dont try and sugar coat things.

What about rising crime, frequent attacks on taxi drivers (deaths in fact)....Sol de Margarita.
Locals go to Sambil because its the only SAFE place to go
Wake up buddy
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
You claim "As far as selling property, the market is almost completely Venezuelan. If you have a property that a Venezuelan would want at a reasonable price, it sells very quickly. In other words, the closer it is to Sambil Mall, the better. With all the money the government is pumping into the lower economic classes, the businessmen in this country are getting rich. They're buying property, and Margarita Island is always considered a good investment location."

HAHAHAHAHAHA....you just said it......"If you have a property that a Venezuelan would want at a reasonable price".....so Joe Blow buys a nice unit for say $200,000, naturally when selling it he would like a healthy profit........not gonna happen is it ? I have seen units for sale for years and years and years....not because they are in bad areas, but overpriced to begin with and in 20 yr + buildings.

Margarita is NOT A GOOD place to invest........end of !!!!
 
B

BPR

New Member
You claim "As far as selling property, the market is almost completely Venezuelan. If you have a property that a Venezuelan would want at a reasonable price, it sells very quickly. In other words, the closer it is to Sambil Mall, the better. With all the money the government is pumping into the lower economic classes, the businessmen in this country are getting rich. They're buying property, and Margarita Island is always considered a good investment location."

HAHAHAHAHAHA....you just said it......"If you have a property that a Venezuelan would want at a reasonable price".....so Joe Blow buys a nice unit for say $200,000, naturally when selling it he would like a healthy profit........not gonna happen is it ? I have seen units for sale for years and years and years....not because they are in bad areas, but overpriced to begin with and in 20 yr + buildings.

Margarita is NOT A GOOD place to invest........end of !!!!
You defeat your own arguments. I too have seen overpriced units for sale for years and years in old buildings. I've also seen good units for sale in good buildings that were sold at market value within weeks. Someone dumb enough to purchase a poor property for an inflated price is not going to see a good return on it.

The old rule is that one makes money when they buy, not when they sell, and that requires doing the homework and buying good properties for good prices. Doing so produces a good ROI with respect to rents and allows for a nice profit from appreciation at some point down the road.

There aren't ANY real estate markets where Joe Blow can buy overpriced in the beginning and see a healthy return in a short period of time unless Joe Blow is incredibly lucky... kind of the way you were when you bought something in 2002 and watched the country go into a depression in 2003 (negative 11% GDP growth) but then rebound with 17% GDP growth in 2004 and 10% GDP growth in 2005, 2006 and 2007. That drove the housing market up quite a bit, so that even if you purchased for an inflated price you still made money.

My gut feeling is that you've got a bad case of sour grapes. According to your story you sold out in 2007. Either you got paid in Dollars somewhere outside the country or you had to take your Bolivares out through the parallel market (which is easy and legal using a brokerage account) at a rate of 6000 Bolivares plus per Dollar. If you'd just waited until this year you'd have seen a minimum 20% to 30% increase in price as well as a drop in the exchange rate that would have given you TWICE as much money.

In other words, you got out too soon and didn't make nearly as much money as you could have. Most people kick themselves for a long time after decisions like that, but you seem to be redirecting your anger toward Margarita.

There are plenty of properties for sale on Margarita for above-market prices- just like every other real estate market, and there are plenty of properties for sale at reasonable prices. For someone willing to look there are also under-priced properties available. Occasionally a real bargain pops up, but it doesn't last long. Again, I could be describing any healthy real estate market anywhere.

The other side of the coin is the economic condition of Venezuela and where the Venezuelan economy goes from here. Again, you're quite negative and you're implied claim is that simply because you lived on Margarita you must be some kind of an expert on all things Venezuela. Does that mean if you spend enough time in McDonalds you'll be an expert on the fast food industry?

You sound just like a lot of expats I know who live here and get all their opinions from disenfranchised Venezuelans who lost out when Chavez was elected. Some of those Venezuelans lost their jobs and connections... and they're really bitter. Margarita isn't representative of Venezuela, but you wouldn't know that unless you spent some time on the Mainland.

The infrastructure projects going on in Venezuela are huge, with subways, roads, bridges, heavy and light rail systems, power plants and refineries being built as fast as they can be built. The tier 1 and tier 2 construction companies are maxed out and have been for the past several years.

If Venezuela is living hand to mouth, how would you describe the economic condition of the US, UK, Spain or Italy? They're all in debt up to their eyeballs, have a negative balance of trade and a housing market that's (at best) going down.

I'm bullish on Margarita, and I've barely scratched the surface of the reasons why. You, on the other hand, decided to leave, so you obviously have some negative opinions that cloud your judgment.

OH- and about food. You can find any of the items you listed on just about any day of the week if you're willing to pay above the regulated price. If you only shop at SIGO, well, today they had plenty of rice, oil, baby food, milk, eggs, etc., but there was very little beef or chicken. Want beef or chicken? Drive over to the Carniceria at the entrance to Pampatar and they've got all the beef and chicken you want, but it isn't at the "official" price, it's at the market price.

Don't want to pay the free market price? Then take the time and go to Rattan or CM or Unicasa (different supermarkets) and you'll wind up finding what you want sooner or later. Pay your money and take your choice... that's the reality.

Even when there is a shortage of something, if all else fails the chinese markets will have whatever it is that nobody else seems to have, but they'll gouge you for it.
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
Sweet Grapes

No sour grapes Brian.....I wish you, Chavez, Bernie Eccelstone and Castro a happy life........
Margarita will always hold a place in my heart......the people especially, but as an investent..............its over.
Maybe in 3 yrs time when it crashes BIG TIME. I´ll bag some give aways !!!
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
Hi to all

a newbie here. i am thinking of purchasing property in margarita isle as an investment. what do people think about this. it does not appear to be mentioned in forum - is this because people don't rate it much.

looking to buy either 2 bed flat for around 40 -50K or house for around £80 - 90K. Dont need mortgage necessarily.

would probably use it myself but that is not the primary aim.

have considered morocco saidia - but that is now becoming expensive to get anything in decent plot, size etc. possibly considering croatia, montenegro
although dont know too much about them yet. have already got something in bulgaria. dont want egypt, dubai, germany.

any thoughts???:confused:
why not Egypt ????
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
You defeat your own arguments. I too have seen overpriced units for sale for years and years in old buildings. I've also seen good units for sale in good buildings that were sold at market value within weeks. Someone dumb enough to purchase a poor property for an inflated price is not going to see a good return on it.

The old rule is that one makes money when they buy, not when they sell, and that requires doing the homework and buying good properties for good prices. Doing so produces a good ROI with respect to rents and allows for a nice profit from appreciation at some point down the road.

There aren't ANY real estate markets where Joe Blow can buy overpriced in the beginning and see a healthy return in a short period of time unless Joe Blow is incredibly lucky... kind of the way you were when you bought something in 2002 and watched the country go into a depression in 2003 (negative 11% GDP growth) but then rebound with 17% GDP growth in 2004 and 10% GDP growth in 2005, 2006 and 2007. That drove the housing market up quite a bit, so that even if you purchased for an inflated price you still made money.

My gut feeling is that you've got a bad case of sour grapes. According to your story you sold out in 2007. Either you got paid in Dollars somewhere outside the country or you had to take your Bolivares out through the parallel market (which is easy and legal using a brokerage account) at a rate of 6000 Bolivares plus per Dollar. If you'd just waited until this year you'd have seen a minimum 20% to 30% increase in price as well as a drop in the exchange rate that would have given you TWICE as much money.

In other words, you got out too soon and didn't make nearly as much money as you could have. Most people kick themselves for a long time after decisions like that, but you seem to be redirecting your anger toward Margarita.

There are plenty of properties for sale on Margarita for above-market prices- just like every other real estate market, and there are plenty of properties for sale at reasonable prices. For someone willing to look there are also under-priced properties available. Occasionally a real bargain pops up, but it doesn't last long. Again, I could be describing any healthy real estate market anywhere.

The other side of the coin is the economic condition of Venezuela and where the Venezuelan economy goes from here. Again, you're quite negative and you're implied claim is that simply because you lived on Margarita you must be some kind of an expert on all things Venezuela. Does that mean if you spend enough time in McDonalds you'll be an expert on the fast food industry?

You sound just like a lot of expats I know who live here and get all their opinions from disenfranchised Venezuelans who lost out when Chavez was elected. Some of those Venezuelans lost their jobs and connections... and they're really bitter. Margarita isn't representative of Venezuela, but you wouldn't know that unless you spent some time on the Mainland.

The infrastructure projects going on in Venezuela are huge, with subways, roads, bridges, heavy and light rail systems, power plants and refineries being built as fast as they can be built. The tier 1 and tier 2 construction companies are maxed out and have been for the past several years.

If Venezuela is living hand to mouth, how would you describe the economic condition of the US, UK, Spain or Italy? They're all in debt up to their eyeballs, have a negative balance of trade and a housing market that's (at best) going down.

I'm bullish on Margarita, and I've barely scratched the surface of the reasons why. You, on the other hand, decided to leave, so you obviously have some negative opinions that cloud your judgment.

OH- and about food. You can find any of the items you listed on just about any day of the week if you're willing to pay above the regulated price. If you only shop at SIGO, well, today they had plenty of rice, oil, baby food, milk, eggs, etc., but there was very little beef or chicken. Want beef or chicken? Drive over to the Carniceria at the entrance to Pampatar and they've got all the beef and chicken you want, but it isn't at the "official" price, it's at the market price.

Don't want to pay the free market price? Then take the time and go to Rattan or CM or Unicasa (different supermarkets) and you'll wind up finding what you want sooner or later. Pay your money and take your choice... that's the reality.

Even when there is a shortage of something, if all else fails the chinese markets will have whatever it is that nobody else seems to have, but they'll gouge you for it.
FOOD.............so you have to "hunt" for items..............not exactly "convinient", proving my point yet again.
Margarita will have a lot of apartments at "bargain" prices in 5 years time.........WHY, because everyone will want out, and cant sell.
You would be better off as a used car dealer Brian........heard a lot about your "dealings" on the Island.
 
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Pharaoh

New Member
How safe is Margarita ?

Not at all safe. Tourist assaults and incidents are rising steadily. In yesterdays .:: EL SOL DE MARGARITA ::. a French lady was killed in her own HOME.
Today a fisherman was shot dead in Porlamar !
The owner of a well known shop, was realeased today after 81 days kidnapped !
The agents dont tell you that do they !!

.:: EL SOL DE MARGARITA ::.

Another good site is this Bienvenidos a Veneconomía
Tells you inflation figures, etc etc
I wish more people would READ up on Margarita BEFORE they decide to part with their cash
 
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The Great Gatsby

New Member
What do you think of the location where Caracola is being built? Is there much activity yet. Thanks in advance
 
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andyintheworld

New Member
Will the problem with Caracola not be selling it???
If there ends up being 1200 units as planned - then there aren´t going to be any resales for a very long time and once there are resales, surely oversupply of the same types of apartment in the same complex is going to dilute the prices as everyone tries to exit????

That would be my major worry.

So far as crime figures etc - same as most holiday locations. Every day in every resort there is crime.
I lived and worked in Caracas for 2 years - I was security conscious of course - but had no problems at all and its apparently a lot more dangerous there.
Dont go anywhere lonely - alone. Dont wander around covered in Bling! Use your common sense like you would if you were in any foreign country.

I visit Margarita regularly as well as many other places in the region and have family in the peninsula.
Personally I think the best investments there are resale apartments. Off-plan projects are looking a little over priced now, although there are still some excellent opportunities. The problem with is they are marketed and priced for Europeans who have Euros.
This is not only obvious to those that know the local market but I have heard this from the horses mouth - last time I was there I had a meeting with more than one agent/developer who would not give me bolivar prices for their properties because they were for expats.

When I compared the Euro prices with the bolivar prices (easily obtained from the promotion booths in Sambil Mall) there was quite a mark-up.

The best deals come from researching the island, getting out there and getting to know the place. If you can get someone (preferably a Venezuelan) to put your offers in on properties then you will achieve realistic prices.

Money exchange generally isnt a problem - I´ve moved money in and out on the black market for years with no problems. I have a trusted lawyer who does this for me and a broker in Caracas who I have used in the past.
 
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