lumiere leeds site at a stand still

Discussion in 'UK Property' started by Minime, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. Minime

    Minime New Member

    I purchased an apartment in Lumiere Leeds due to complete in 2011. I got a letter to say the project is to be put on hold until the market improves.
    I have payed 5% of the purchase price on the apartment.

    On the contract it does not specify a date of completing just sayes we will notify you 3 months before completion.

    Looking for advice on what I should do next.
  2. sha-sl

    sha-sl New Member

    well you are lucky you just paid 5% of the amoint for appartment. Few people has paid 30% and lost there money due to crisis in the property market. You can go for legal procedings to claim your amount . But, don't forger to carry your documnets along with you .
  3. LydiaS

    LydiaS New Member

    An article about your experiences

    Hi Minime.

    I work for a national property magazine and I would like to write an article about your experiences with Lumiere.

    Please reply to this post if you are interested in speaking to me. I will get straight back to you.
  4. Minime

    Minime New Member


    Hi Lydias.

    I purchased an apartment and alot of my friends did also. We are disapointed that the developments is stopped are are afraid that we will lose our deposits. The building is to start again in the second quarter of 2009. What bank is going to lend to a development of this scale. If people are afraid and start defaulting on the next payment is the builder going to sue everyone to get their money. I don't know how solvent Kw Linfoot is but I have a fair idea that it can't be good for him now and in the near future.

    If go here you will find more posts on it.

    Lumiere | On Hold | 172m & 113m | 55fl & 33fl - Page 103 - SkyscraperCity
  5. LydiaS

    LydiaS New Member

    Hi Minime,

    Would you and your friends be willing to talk to me for an article I am writing?

    It would be a case of me coming to meet you, wherever you are based, and discussing your situations, then finding you some answers about what is going to happen to your deposits.

    My number is 0207 921 8748. Give me a call and we can discuss it.

    I hope to hear from you.

  6. Minime

    Minime New Member

    Can you send me a private message or email address
  7. LydiaS

    LydiaS New Member

  8. pdlt2008

    pdlt2008 New Member

    Stronger Together!

    I am a property professional and have also paid a deposit on this scheme. Despite Linfoot going into admininstration, the Lumiere scheme survives as the previous JV partner has taken the Linfoot position. It would have suited us better had the scheme gone into administration as we are protected by the Zurich guarantee.
    The suggestion that a (re) start on site will commence is simply a nonsense. Their is no development finance available and the value of the apartmnets is now 40-50% less than the prices we signed up to.
    We need to get an many of us together to lobby the developer ( now Fraser Property) to repay the deposits.
    In my opinion the developers stance is tantamount to theft
  9. Minime

    Minime New Member


    Where do you suggest in going from here ? I know plenty of people in Ireland that want out. Also there are many discussions on skyscrapercity regarding Lumiere. If hyperinflation kicks in it will cost to much to build and it will take a long time before we see the values rising. A friend of mine contacted the solicitor they said if the building isn't completed by 2012 we can sue the developers. To far away though. I also said to the solicitor if we don't pay the next deposit, their reply we will sue for any loss. I think if enough people get together some sort of action can be taken. People are afraid to take on companies as big as these.

    Let me know what you are thinking :confused:and I will help in any way I can.
  10. pdlt2008

    pdlt2008 New Member


    Thanks for that. If like me you were semi compelled to use a particular firm of solicitors I think they are complicit in the problem. To advise clients that a contract with no back stop date- whatsoever- is acceptable is negligent, in my opinion.
    I think the key here will be to set up as large a group of deposit payers as possible. As a handful we are too easily swatted away- if we can get say 100 ( ideally more ) folks expressing an opinion as one we have a much greater chance of success. I have already spoken to a journalist at bith teh Yorkshire Post and Property Week and both are keen to hear more on this one.
    I can account for about 8 apartments through my own contacts.
    Fundamentally, the issue is that these apartments simply will not be built- certainly not within 10 years.
    Let's keep the dialogue going
  11. Minime

    Minime New Member


    I would know of 22 people that bought in this project and would be confident that I could find allot more. Firstly should we get a solicitors advice on where we should start as there isn't much point in getting people together if we have no definite direction of where we are going. I have little or no experience in this area but am keen to learn and help in any way I can. My solicitor is O Rourke Reid.

    Just a suggestion. When you are speaking to these magazines would you state that we are forming a group to tackle this problem. This I think would attract interest of many more people.

    Do we set up a bog or use this forums to keep contact with everyone, what do you suggest ?
  12. pdlt2008

    pdlt2008 New Member

    Ive taken some legal advice, the position isn't totally clear- but on balance it seems we have a decent case.
    I totally agree about saying we are forming a larger group- I think others will "sign up" with us at the earliest opportunity.
    Let's keep the dialogue going- I will speak to a journalist I know tomorrow
  13. Minime

    Minime New Member

    I got a solicitor to check out my contract. They said the developer has done nothing wrong so far. They have stated on the brochure that completion date 2011/2012. If it does go over 2012 a case could be taken against them.

    I would be interested in what legal advice you will get. Hopefully more positive than the information I have got.

    I have spoken to a few people who want out. They said just let them know what their options are.
  14. Benny

    Benny New Member


    i have also bought a apt, when i raised cancellation last august the solicitor orouke advised the clause of "force majeure" covers the delay & the question is what constitutes a reasonable delay. I objected that the clause does not cover financial loss & only unforeseen events & made the point that funding should have been secured so is foreseen. It was referred to their litigation dept who thought the clause is wide enough & that a year is a reasonable delay.
    However as they have vested interest im not convinced & especially now Linfoot has gone & even it it did start the delay would def be over a year.
    I do think power is in numbers & Frasers have stated that no def decision has been made yet re development & with current situation cant see when it will start & indeed i doubt a court would uphold their stance.
    Deposit monies are protected & think pressure should now be to get them returned to us.
  15. pdlt2008

    pdlt2008 New Member

    "Force majeure" according to my legal advice ( and I have half an idea anyway) relates more to stuff like earthquakes, natural disasters etc. It doesnt cover the developers inability to get the cash!
    Minime- interesting your contract has a back stop date for delivery, mine doesnt. Point being- this is such a complex large scheme teh construction period is, literally, years. If they started on site today it wouldnt be ready in 2011.
    How do we group everyone we know? It would just be so much more powerful to go to Fraser as a v large group- say more than 50.
  16. Minime

    Minime New Member

    My contract does not have a back stop date, sorry if I did not explain myself properly.

    I sent an email regarding my situation to a solicitor.

    He mentioned the "Contra Proferentum " rule. He also seems to think our solicitors should now make time of the essence to the contract -as we now have a chance to tighten up what was essentially a sellers contract.I emailed ORourke Reid on this and his reply was ""if the delay takes completion past the estimated completion date 2011 I can serve notice on the developers making time of the essence and if the developers failed to meet the deadline, the court would look into the reasonable delay and see what if any remedies are available.However, this cannot be done before the estimated completed date as the builders may still make up time. 2011

    I spoke to a friend of mine today who said he would also support a group action against Lumiere. He has contacts of at lest thirty people that purchased in Lumiere.

    Before we go any further and round up the troops. We have to decide on the best path to take. There is no point in getting 50 to 100 people together and then decide on what to do. Fraser properties look like no small outfit. If we go into the office to them and they tell us feck off. What do we do then???

    I am just trying to tease out a few ideas.

    Should we all group together and employ a solicitor and take action against them ?

    Who represents the group?

    If we get a group together how do we communicate ?

    I remember reading on the net last year that residents and business are not to happy either with this development, because they are afraid of traffic congestion and also when construction work on the development was in full swing it was effecting business. They want this site to be converted into a car park. So these people might want to participate.

    My brother is in the process of getting his deposit back. When they changed the plans they had to make his apartment considerably smaller. He asked for his deposit back and they have agreed. Lucky.

    Any thoughts please reply.
  17. Minime

    Minime New Member

    Anyone put anymore thought into a plan to get our deposits back?:confused:
  18. pdlt2008

    pdlt2008 New Member

    Sorry, back today from hols. I spoke with a journalist at Property Week who is very very keen to hear more from us- " The Lumiere Action Group". He mentioned a very simiar situation where Ballymore are the developer and a lawyer there is acting for a large group of unhappy investors.
    At this point I think we need to simply agree we are stronger as a group, corral all the various folks we know- and appoint a spokesperson. ( I am unable to be quoted given I work in the profession- it would be too close to home for me). I can then tee up the PW journalist who would be happy to take sound bites from us on where our grievances lie.
    Any good guys?
  19. Minime

    Minime New Member

    Before a group is put together do you not think we should have some sort of foundation in proceeding with this case. If we do form a group and our direction is not clear I would be afraid of people not taking this seriously. If we could contact a solicitor with a good history and appoint him as our spokes person. Me and most of the investors I know are one off investors with little experience and also most of us are based in Ireland. I spoke to allot of people in the past few weeks all want out and like me need guidance.

    If 600 apartment are sold in this development, I presume not to many want to complete. If only 100 people got together and agreed a fee with a lawyer to proceed.

    This lawyer acting for the group against Ballymore must know what he is doing if the group employed him. Would it be possible to get his contact details ?
  20. Conerned Investor

    Conerned Investor New Member

    I am also an investor in Lumiere and have already sought legal advice with the property department of a prominent law firm in London.

    Force Majeure does not cover an inability to raise finance.
    You must NOT simply walk away from the contract otherwise the developer could pursue you for any difference in their resale price of the development. Slim risk but a risk never the less.
    The developers have been notified that a reasonable amount of time (in accordance with the contract terms) has already passed and in their absence to advise of a start date to re-commence the build, my solicitors have given them 28 days to respond otherwise we expect repayment of our deposits. It is simply unacceptable to expect investors to wait another 4 years (7/8+ years in total) for them to complete the development - assuming they begin building again now. Realistically, I don't think Lumiere will go ahead and the developers need to do the right thing.

    I would happily join a class act against the developers.

    Below is my lawyers latest piece of correspondence with KWL which other investors may find of interest:

    "Dear Mr Crosfill

    Thank you for your email of 5 March. For the avoidance of doubt, my clients are not requesting to be released from the contract. Instead, they are entitled to be released from the contract if the Sellers are not prepared to comply with their contractual obligations and to complete the construction of the Property within a reasonable time.

    The correspondence to which you refer simply confirms that construction has ceased and, therefore, will not be completed within a reasonable time.

    With regard to clause 6.7 of the contract, I have already provided my comments in my letter of 17 November and to which I have received no substantive reply. The force majeure provision applies only to a failure to perform due to an impediment beyond the Sellers' control and which they could not reasonably have avoided. There is no doubt that the "uncertain climate" and "credit crunch" have significantly impacted on the financial and property markets, but do not in themselves prevent the Sellers from proceeding with the development. If the Sellers wish to delay the development until the property market improves, then this is their decision and there is actually no impediment to them proceeding at the present time. Alternatively, if they do not have sufficient funding available, then this is a matter which they should reasonably have taken into account before entering into a contractual obligation with my clients to complete the development within a reasonable time.

    Therefore, once again, I would ask you to confirm the Sellers' intentions within the period referred to in my letter of 5 March".

    (28days - but still no reply as yet)

    Has O Rourke Reid been appointed by anyone to act?

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