Is the Dubai property market falling apart or finding a level?

Discussion in 'Dubai property' started by Nicholas Wallwork, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. oasis2buyer

    oasis2buyer Banned

    "Abu Dhabi raising money on its good credit to bailout Dubai, whose international credit standing is among the lowest in the world right now, would likely be a contribution to the final solution, although all this is still speculation at this stage."

    At this stage the emphasis should be placed on the word "speculation" in the last sentence!!

    "And as UBS analyst Saud Masud notes, Dubai Inc is also on the hook to complete a lot of projects to avoid having to pay back the people who bought units in them. Since it costs less to finish a building presumably than to refund all those purchases, Mr Saud wagers that Dubai Inc will choose completion. That will require that it come with as much as $60bn more."

    And "presumably" is the key word here...

    It will take years of recovery as investor confidence has diminished - look at all the sales going on in Victory Heights - is anyone buying - you have desperate agents even advertising on this forum from leosterling but then they packed up and left town very quickly once a negative comment was posted claiming that vegas was a lot cheaper!
  2. yort

    yort New Member

    I think it is the step that many of us were waiting for. Since there is no sense to continue investing into the property units price if which is much lower then the price of the contract.
  3. oasis2buyer

    oasis2buyer Banned

    A year on and still nothing has changed it'll be March the 13th next week of 2010 - who wants to invest in anything that Dubai has to offer including any swaps - investors who have been burnt want only their money back and why can't they - let the developers sell them to anyone else that wants them - any takers? Problems were in existent as far back as 2005 - how many still waiting for their "off plans" to be completed. It's a downright disgrace!
  4. Land Sterling

    Land Sterling New Member

    Here is an Article I wrote recently for the property Magazines.

  5. oasis2buyer

    oasis2buyer Banned

    Home buyers in Dubai are more cautious when purchasing a property

    Property buyers in Dubai are seeking legal advice prior to purchasing a property due to constant changes in property laws in the Emirate. Property Law 13 which governs off-plan sales has been revised more than three times in the last two years raising concern among investors that the Dubai real estate market remains untransparent.

    “Investors are very wary about investing their hard-earned cash in Dubai due to the lack of transparency and rigorous property laws which protects their rights. Investors believe the recent property laws are more protective of developers and unsympathetic towards investors,” said Youcef Betraoui MRICS, managing director of Land Sterling Property Consultants.

    To address the problem, Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) is considering a new property draft law which would enable property buyers to cancel their contract and claim a refund if the project is ‘unfeasible’.

    Details of the new protection for homebuyers came in a newsletter from leading legal firm Hadef & Partners which says the new law will spell out ground rules for cancellations, most notably if a developer refuses to link payments to stages to construction or if the developer makes major specification changes.

    Elsewhere in the country, Abu Dhabi is considering a new real estate legislation which will make it easier for landlords to evict low-paying tenants. Under the new law which is to be implemented in the UAE capital in November, judges will settle rent disputes under the umbrella of the Ministry of Justice, UAE daily The National reported.

    Wonder if anyone will disagree with the above...interesting information contained and not so much good news for those who have already purchased as no warnings signs were could it be possible for laws to change so quickly and be so one sided??
  6. Land Sterling

    Land Sterling New Member

    What we tried to say is that alot of real estate players have made a mistake in this market. The Law is here to fix that.

    Whoever gambled with their money should not expect to win all the time.

    The laws will come hard on developers in the coming months to comply.

    If they cant continue with their project, then RERA will step in and refund investors a percentage of the price depending how far the project has reached.

    We will soon issue an article regarding dispute resolution. We will keep the board posted.

  7. oasis2buyer

    oasis2buyer Banned

    Thanks for clearing some points up however you mention Real estate players?? - sorry confused again....I don't see it in that sense as many who did invest were burnt purely for the fact that they were lied to by developers - yes you may have those who continually flip properties these investors can be referred to as "real estate players". However in regard to genuine ordinary folk (who are only first time buyers not flipping or speculating) who really thought they were investing into a safe market (were coerced into believing it was by the agents selling these projects, even to the point where monies were protected by escrow - it didn't happen!). These are the people that need to be protected by the law (which to date has only been one-sided) and there are thousands as you will note from the media articles who invested their life savings (money which is irreplacable) into a small unit as an investment for their own future and were expecting completion by a certain date are the ones actually suffering as they may have taken out loans also to cover this believing that it would be completed by a certain date...I know many such investors who have been taken for the biggest ride ever only to be bitterly disappointed when no progress has taken place even when they were being told progress was taking place and construction was happening. It didn't happen as they were lied to and strung along for 3 years now. These are the developers who need to be taken to task and laws must protect people from this sort of situation - Dubai is causing it's own downfall in the end! Hope you can see this from a different side and not always the one sided situation where the developers seem to have the upper hand as has been the case in several communites which were promised - even the master developer is stringing people along as they too have not completed projects as indicated. Surely there has to be a time frame involved by which date these master communities must be completed by but this was never provided at the time of purchase although it was mentioned that a time frame was expected by the master developer.
  8. Taaha

    Taaha New Member

    Well, I think that Dubai real estate business is still falling and it will take a bit more time for it to recover from the current crisis and prices are expected to fall in Abu Dhabi by 20% more as new real estate projects are going on but I am hopeful that sooner or later Dubai will succeed in recovering its real estate crisis and it's already striving hard for it.
  9. georgihh

    georgihh New Member

    Yes ,but they are not going to build the economy and the situation will drag on for another 10 years
  10. oasis2buyer

    oasis2buyer Banned

    Yes I I do hope the law changes as it has changed several times but to whose benefit? From where most genuine buyers (not the real estate players) are standing it is completely one sided and where the developer can keep the money even the 30 percent (even when they haven't constructed one floor) claiming it to be force majeure and "entirely out of their control they will continue to claim" and blame it on anyone other than themselves (that's how they are trying to get away with it). How could it be possible when all of them are blaming everyone else but themselves. They have not even provided any tangible proof ever what caused the force majuere to occur, not even the GFC can be used to protect them if that's what they rely upon and anything else is of their own making - (only and act of God no one has control over and that hasn't happened in the past 3 years, therefore they have nothing). They also ignored any contact with investors, ignoring anything to do with construction questions and progresss and ignored messages sent constantly, these are the complaints provided by investors and are common. This is where the law is open to interpretation and in hindsight is usually one sided as force majeure if it subsists for in excess of 6 months (and it did), all reasonable steps should have been undertaken to mitigate the effects of force majeure which didn't happen...unfortunately the developers are using this "excuse" as a band aid fix whenever it suits them and of course easy for them to keep 30 percent of monies paid. There was also a RERA regulation that if 20 or was it 30 percent was paid and no progress i.e. actual floors being constructed that no further monies were to be paid by the investor. Therefore no progress no money which is fair enough. This regulation was also supposed to be enforced by RERA. Genuine buyers have paid in excess of 30 percent in fact many thousands paid 75 percent and no progress occurred. No buyer is going to continue to pay when they know they have paid out so much already without any progress, this is the only reason why a genuine investor would stop paying and they have every right not to continue. Genuine buyers will always pay up if there is sign of work commensurate to the monies paid but there hasn't been and that is clearly indicated in the media. In these many and majority of instances it hasn't been the case and the developer has ignored the genuine investor all the way through, these are not real estate players but people who have mouths to feed and to pay the banks where they borrowed after having been coerced into believing all was safe in Dubai and that the project would be completed by that date. These developers know they are to blame the reason why they have kept silent and not answered any relevant enquiries as there there is no money, they even refuse to provide by law the escrow statements to each individual when they have been asking until the cows come home - their requests all ignored. RERA don't want to know either so who is really protecting the genuine investor in all of this one has to ask? This is not about real estate players, this is about protecting the real person tied up in this mess and where the authorities should be doing something about it immediately, including enforcing laws of protection immediately and actually doing something about them without the buyer having to go through hoops only to lose more monies just to try and get justice just because these laws are open to interpretation. Laws should also be interpreted correctly and this game play should stop! One also has to ask themselves why is it when buyers hadn't paid up they were in constant contact, all very nice and could be so accommodating, would respond immediately, but when the deposit and the installments paid total ignorance and yes there are many investors who paid upfront the lot or at least 75 percent of it all so where does it leave all these people - are they real estate players and deserve this - it's stealing money and all this is allowed? All this is all too common and that is what really is happening out there and there has to be a stop put to it all. The authorities have had 3 years (perhaps more) to do something about it and nothing but one sided laws are enacted.
  11. Catherine4u

    Catherine4u New Member

    I agree with you Taaha. According to the market report and my own analysis I think Dubai still has the potential in it to recover. No doubt one will experience a decline in the property rates now but by the last quarter of this year Dubai will rise for sure. They have learned a lesson from their past mistakes and now they are much more active and they will be using a pro-active approach for any kind of property crisis in future.
  12. Wannaberich

    Wannaberich New Member

    Really?sorry hadn't noticed.
  13. britishegyptian

    britishegyptian New Member

    Homes from hell - Dubai & Egypt

    I apologise for this post but have you not read, viewed or hard about this UK programme?
    Reality is there are no developments in Dubai, Egypt or Middle East at present unless they were bank rolled by a Sheikh or managed to get mega bucks from outside of their country!
    I'm trying to do my own research on how many Brits have lost out on the Dubai and Egyptian market - maybe you can help?
  14. Brendan R

    Brendan R New Member

    the program on ITV the other day mentioned that 100,000 Brits had invested in Dubai.

    That's a lot. It explains why Dubai has stopped marketing itself in the UK, both directly and indirectly. When you screw so many people it's hard to serve them a second helping.

    Also people tend to forget that Brits buyers that bought offplan are even more underwater because of the weak pound. For them, the loss is compounded by the weak pound. On the other hand, people who bought prior to 2007 when the steling was buying in excess of 7.5 dirhams have offset some of the losses on their property.

    Unfortunately, most of the buyers were and are offplan and keep on paying for an inflated good with a deflated currency. These are very hard times for Brits investors. Couple this with the recession at home, austerity and a useless football team, that's pretty grim.

    The only mantra people are going by is: things can only get better.

    Well, I guess investors have no choice.

    Hope is a very good breakfast but a very bad supper. Bacon
  15. Catherine4u

    Catherine4u New Member

    It is true. But as we all know Dubai is a global hub and people of almost every nation are there doing job and business. So, the issue gets bigger when such a place is hit by recession. I still believe that Dubai has a lot of potential in it but after such a tough time people have faced in Dubai I think its not a place to take risk now.

    CJGEORGE New Member

    I share the views of Catherine. Dubai infrastructire is so magnificient and modern with state of the art technology. It is no secret that Dubai will lead the world league of cities and the recovery of Dubai economy, and in particular property market is imminent. Personally, all my three properties rented out in Dubai gives much better return than in the UK, US or in India.

  17. Brendan R

    Brendan R New Member

    you have to follow the money. The money is not going to Dubai, it is actually fleeing it.

    With international investors screwed by the con orchestrated by the authorities and the developpers (some of them owned by the rulers), don't expect investors to be fooled twice.

    The recession is not the reason the Dubai real estate market has collapsed. The real estate market in Dubai collapsed because it is a game of musical chairs and the music has stopped.

    Growth has now shifted to Asia and India. Dubai and the Middle East will remain marginal destinations unless something major occurs.

    Good for you for your real estate investments in Dubai. You are one of the few coming on top.

    Lots of real estate investors are currently underwater but they hope for the sucker that will take the hot potato off their hands.
  18. Catherine4u

    Catherine4u New Member

    Well I think there are a lot of things still happening in Dubai and it will surely come up on the scene again.
  19. mprez

    mprez New Member

    For the past few months I have seen plenty activity in Dubai, yes even regarding developments and all after the hard crash in late 2009, no doubt about that. Yes the employment pay scales have gone down, less spending in the market, lack of interest in investments etc, etc but Dubai can always rely on its major attractions regardless of the crash. Yes property values have gone down, allowing people to move into dubai from other areas to work.
    Dubai was expensive as hell and going crazy with expensive apartments. People hardly could afford a one bed room, now they can move into a two bedroom easily!

    All I'm saying is that rather than a total slump, Dubai will soon gain its attraction again, and i hope it doesnt go crazy this time.

    ps. People here and tourists love burj khalifa, the atlantis at the palm, dubai mall sheikh zayed rd!
  20. Catherine4u

    Catherine4u New Member

    Recently I have read a news in which the ratings agency Fitch has claimed that Dubai will not get stabled until 2013. They have done a proper analysis and they think that Dubai would not be able to recover it self completely. Any thoughts?
  21. kahn

    kahn New Member

    international city/ARY spainsh cluster

    hi all,i bought a unit in spain6,few years back,up to now i dont have any title deeds etc,even though its paid in full.i asked ary,they are blaming nakheel for not releasing the paper work,then i asked nakheel,they said ary has paid them by post dated chq which is not cashed yet,but refuse to give date?
    any body out there knows the truth or where to go?thaks for all your help:

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