investment strategy

[Dotty]

Yawn,

Did you begin an investment strategy thread??

What a surprise!! So you are just a dabbler after all.

 

[debzor]

Rob I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you yet again ,as would most tourist industry professionals. Research shows that golfing tourists spend on average 50% more than your average tourist. Anually this adds up to 13 billion dollars worldwide. As the Commercial Director of Iberostar, Orlando Giglio says and I quote " It is the same format as other parts of the world where golf is fundamental for tourism ." Also Alexandre Zubaran,the director- president of Costa do Sauipe, is quoted in the same article as saying that " in the specific case of Bahia the new developments will help the state turn itself into , by 2010, a real golfing destination."
Now I don't know if you know more than they do, but they seem to think that golf is an essential part for real success . Likewise China that already has 200 golf courses in 22 cities is busy building 500 more with a further 500 in an advanced stage of planning. I don't think there's that many Chinese golfers somehow and I don't think they would be building all these golf courses for nothing , if golf meant very little to the tourism industry.
The Guia Quatro Rodas is the biggest selling tourism manual in Brazil with over 6000 hotels listed and graded and over 2000 restaurants. So I also think that they must also have some idea . Not to say that there won't be people who don't agree with some of the ratings . As I disagreed with the rating of one particular restaurant that I happened to visit. As the Brazilians say "Gosto é que nem cu , todo mundo tem um ."

With regards to an investment strategy, the fact that 'golf tourists spend 50% more than other tourists' may be down to two factors:

1/ that golfers who travel the world to play golf may have a greater disposible income, and seek a certain standard at a certain price

2/ they need to spend more to help cover the vast cost of setting up and running courses and the associated facilities

Therefore they may be able, and need, to spend more than say diving tourists or skiers.

I suggest this does not mean that a golf resort necessarily makes for a better investment.

 

[Mineiro]

First of all I was only joking about the guide, I also know very well what it is, I went to a restaurant just outside Pipa which had 2 stars. It was worth the money for the experience, but a culinary experience it was not especially at R$150 a head.

As for the golf, that's great that it is still growing, as for it being necessary for a resorts success, it isn't, it does help for sales and rentals as it adds another attraction to a resort, but I know plenty of resorts doing just fine without it.

I do find it amusing that you quote the director of Costa do Sauipe since the 2 courses there haven't done anything for their bottom line.

So you admit that golf's an important selling point for any resort. I'm sure there are resorts without golf that are doing just fine because the number of Brazilians who are interested in and play golf are very few, and the resorts that are successful are so, thanks to the large number of Brazilians tourists that visit them.
I don't think that any resort here in Brazil could get by only relying on gringos. However the fact remains that to greatly increase the number of foreign tourists to an area, golf is an essential part.
Are you ready now to discuss why Costa do Sauipe has had no success or did you just bring it up to suit your own argument? Why don't you tell us Rob why Costa do Sauipe has been a failure?

 

[Mineiro]

With regards to an investment strategy, the fact that 'golf tourists spend 50% more than other tourists' may be down to two factors:

1/ that golfers who travel the world to play golf may have a greater disposible income, and seek a certain standard at a certain price

2/ they need to spend more to help cover the vast cost of setting up and running courses and the associated facilities

Therefore they may be able, and need, to spend more than say diving tourists or skiers.

I suggest this does not mean that a golf resort necessarily makes for a better investment.

Debzor I don't really understand the second part of your argument. Why do the golfers NEED to spend more. They didn't build the courses and have no obligation in helping to pay for "the vast cost of setting up and running courses etc". They happen to spend more for various reasons but certainly not because they have any obligation in doing so.

 

[Mineiro]

It is compared here: Club Med - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rob are you still comparing the Club Med Trancoso to a Club 18-30 or are you ready to admit that you are wrong and that the people who frequent the Club Med in Trancoso have nothing in common with your Club 18-30 tourist.

 

[robh]

Rob are you still comparing the Club Med Trancoso to a Club 18-30 or are you ready to admit that you are wrong and that the people who frequent the Club Med in Trancoso have nothing in common with your Club 18-30 tourist.

I am starting to think that you are actually GolfingWorld, it is surprising how he suddenly disappeared and then you came about.

 

[robh]

Debzor I don't really understand the second part of your argument. Why do the golfers NEED to spend more. They didn't build the courses and have no obligation in helping to pay for "the vast cost of setting up and running courses etc". They happen to spend more for various reasons but certainly not because they have any obligation in doing so.

Debzor is referring to green fees.

 

[Mineiro]

I am starting to think that you are actually GolfingWorld, it is surprising how he suddenly disappeared and then you came about.

You can rest assured I am not GolfingWorld although I must admit he was one of the few realists on this forum. Are you going to admit you were wrong?

 

[robh]

So you admit that golf's an important selling point for any resort. I'm sure there are resorts without golf that are doing just fine because the number of Brazilians who are interested in and play golf are very few, and the resorts that are successful are so, thanks to the large number of Brazilians tourists that visit them.
I don't think that any resort here in Brazil could get by only relying on gringos. However the fact remains that to greatly increase the number of foreign tourists to an area, golf is an essential part.
Are you ready now to discuss why Costa do Sauipe has had no success or did you just bring it up to suit your own argument? Why don't you tell us Rob why Costa do Sauipe has been a failure?

If you think that, then you had better buy in a golf resort.

 

[Mineiro]

Debzor is referring to green fees.

No she wasn't Rob but the 50% extra that golfers spend than ordinary tourists can't be put down to green fees.

 

[robh]

You can rest assured I am not GolfingWorld although I must admit he was one of the few realists on this forum. Are you going to admit you were wrong?

Sure if you will admit you are wrong about golf.

 

[robh]

No she wasn't Rob but the 50% extra that golfers spend than ordinary tourists can't be put down to green fees.

So what is the 50% spent on?

 

[Mineiro]

If you think that, then you had better buy in a golf resort.

So you don't agree with anything I said. The Commercial Director of Iberostar also knows nothing infact only people in sales know anything whatsoever. Rob there's nothing that wrong in admitting that sometimes other people have a good point.

 

[Mineiro]

So what is the 50% spent on?

You would have to ask the people who did the research , but a great part of the 50 % must be in food and drink.

 

[robh]

So you don't agree with anything I said. The Commercial Director of Iberostar also knows nothing infact only people in sales know anything whatsoever. Rob there's nothing that wrong in admitting that sometimes other people have a good point.

Mineiro,

We have sold on resorts with no golf courses for 100 of miles around, and amazingly they attract foreign visitors with money. I have been to resorts all over the world without golf, in fact I don't play golf so I can't be bothered going to resorts with golf, and they too managed to attract well off guests from abroad.

We used to and will sell on golf resorts in the near future as I do think they are a good investment, but are they necessary to attract foreign visitors, no, they are necessary to attract golfers, but not everyone is a golfer.

Yes you make a point that terravista is nice, I even said I would like to visit it to check it out, but until I see it and look at the details I am not going to say it is a great place to buy.

 

[debzor]

Debzor I don't really understand the second part of your argument. Why do the golfers NEED to spend more. They didn't build the courses and have no obligation in helping to pay for "the vast cost of setting up and running courses etc". They happen to spend more for various reasons but certainly not because they have any obligation in doing so.

My apologies, not good wording, what I meant is that costs in and around golf resorts tend to be higher because of the higher costs, etc...

 

[debzor]

...and I would still I contend this does not mean that a golf resort necessarily makes for a better investment, per se.

 

[JMBroad]

You would have to ask the people who did the research , but a great part of the 50 % must be in food and drink.

Bah wrote a long winded explanation going into details but ended up having my internet explorer crash on me and lost it all... Food and Beverages account for some part of it but not all.

So, summing up in a speedy nutshell:

Money golfers spend on golf:

Clubs
Balls
Tee's
Green-Fee's and/or membership
Pro lessons
Buggy rentals or Cart rentals or purchasing a cart
Food and drink on the course

But the biggest difference is that to play golf you need a LOT of time compared to other popular sports. This is normally the major factor which separates golfers from other sport enthusiasts. To play a round of golf, it will take you the time to get to the course and back and at least three and a half hours IF you are any good at it. I once spent 11 and a half hours to do 18 holes.

Who is willing to spend a lot of time and money (relative to other sports) on their sport of choice? The game by itself does a natural selection of the people who have a higher spending power. People with the most free time are either unemployed or at the top of the food chain. The rest of us in between account for the majority.