investment strategy

[davehoskings]

In the spirit of sharing I would like to ask what people's investment strategies are in regards to property. Heres mine:

Prices are driven by supply and demand so if property is selling at that price then it isn't crazy whatever it is. Please note I do say "is selling". There is a reason why the estate agents maxim is "Location, location, location".

I used to think prices were crazy in some spots on the Costa del Sol 15 years ago. and oh how I wished I had bought more then. That wish still holds even in todays climate.

I certainly agree that some property is overpriced (crazy prices) in comparison to other similar property in the same area, but that is where research and a proper comparison comes in.

When I buy I don't look at price per m2 in comparison to other areas. That is just a fools game which will only lead you to buy something in the backwoods which you never would want to visit, can never rent and can never sell anyway.

What I do is ask myself does the place i am buying in have redeeming features which compare to other places which have already seen good increases in the past and is the type of property I am buying going to benefit from those price rises. This doesn't guarantee instant riches, but I am not poor at all.

I would buy in Buzios right now (not the dump south of Natal, the one near Rio) even though the prices are astronomical compared to what you can get in the NE, because I know it is an established resort town which is frequented by the wealthy of Brazil. Right now Brazil is getting richer so the prices can only go up.

Any Comments?

 

[Dotty]

Strategies for buying-

Short term: pre-launches in great locations with room for high price increases .

Long term-Buy in different locations close to amenities for commercial and residential purposes.



Buzios Rio v's Buzios Natal .Buzios Rio (been hip since the 70's prices very cheap back then,and very similar to Marbella price wise at todays prices ,which does not make it a great investment as it's already expensive to begin with. Florinopolis is stunning(not unlike Buzios Rio)with prices similar to Natal which has a mixture of seasons .The problem being a long hike and a short season.


Buzios Natal-What may be a dump to you at the moment , but is a super investment and will be in the next 5+ yrs very,very expensive to buy into to.Mainly frequented by Natalenses.

Have a nice day

 

[davehoskings]

Strategies for buying-

Short term: pre-launches in great locations with room for high price increases .

Long term-Buy in different locations close to amenities for commercial and residential purposes.



Buzios Rio v's Buzios Natal .Buzios Rio (been hip since the 70's prices very cheap back then,and very similar to Marbella price wise at todays prices ,which does not make it a great investment as it's already expensive to begin with. Florinopolis is stunning(not unlike Buzios Rio)with prices similar to Natal which has a mixture of seasons .The problem being a long hike and a short season.


Buzios Natal-What may be a dump to you at the moment , but is a super investment and will be in the next 5+ yrs very,very expensive to buy into to.Mainly frequented by Natalenses.

Have a nice day

If you think Buzios Natal is expensive to buy into and a great investment then I have a place for you, in fact I have plenty of them ...... or are you an agent pushing buzios????

Otherwise Dotty, you are missing the point of my argument, which is, it doesn't matter what the cost per m2 is, what matters is if it is selling at that price and if it will go up. If I followed your argument I wouldn't buy a property in Mayfair in London because it is ridiculously expensive and has been for the last 40 years but it still keeps going up and up, and isn't likely to stop.

 

[Dotty]

Buzios , Natal is not expensive at the moment (but will be in the next 5+yrs ref-post ).I mean who would think it would now cost you approx 600,000 reais to buy a house there when they would only cost 50,000 a while back.

 

[davehoskings]

Buzios , Natal is not expensive at the moment (but will be in the next 5+yrs ref-post ).I mean who would think it would now cost you approx 600,000 reais to buy a house there when they would only cost 50,000 a while back.

Whatever you think of Buzios Natal, there is no way I would buy there right now, it is priced the same as or more than areas that are much nicer, have infrastructure and have people visiting it.

I just saw a photo of it in a promotional magazine, which makes me laugh as the place is strewn with rubbish, even photoshop can't fix it!!

 

[Dotty]

Aren't you the same person who said Jeri was nothing special?Well I can tell you the people that bought their yrs ago for chicken feed made a fortune and the same goes for Buzios Natal -the future will not be all doom and will flourish in the future .
It has been changing steadily over the last 3yrs with some dodgy condos,but some pretty ones too.It is secluded and doesn't have much to offer yet in the way of nightlife ,police station,chemist etc , but it is changing and as most things in Brasil can take time.

Nice investment.

Whatever you think of Buzios Natal, there is no way I would buy there right now, it is priced the same as or more than areas that are much nicer, have infrastructure and have people visiting it.

I just saw a photo of it in a promotional magazine, which makes me laugh as the place is strewn with rubbish, even photoshop can't fix it!!

 

[davehoskings]

Aren't you the same person who said Jeri was nothing special?Well I can tell you the people that bought their yrs ago for chicken feed made a fortune and the same goes for Buzios Natal -the future will not be all doom and will flourish in the future .
It has been changing steadily over the last 3yrs with some dodgy condos,but some pretty ones too.It is secluded and doesn't have much to offer yet in the way of nightlife ,police station,chemist etc , but it is changing and as most things in Brasil can take time.

Nice investment.

Jeri is way overhyped and it isn't that special at all, it is really good if you are a single male kite surfer with money though.

I think you could make money on Buzios in the future, but right now for what it is, it is way overpriced. Unless you are willing to stay in it for 10 years you ain't going to see returns there.

You sound like an agent to me Dotty, are you one???

 

[davehoskings]

Whatever you think of Buzios Natal, there is no way I would buy there right now, it is priced the same as or more than areas that are much nicer, have infrastructure and have people visiting it.

I just saw a photo of it in a promotional magazine, which makes me laugh as the place is strewn with rubbish, even photoshop can't fix it!!

I have managed to scan the picture in that made laugh so much.

 

[FCZ]

Let me say up front that I’m not a property investor, I just visited RN and CE to short list places to have a Summer house; naturally, if prices go up after I buy it, much better. So, here my two cents:
It seems to me that what you call high price per sq m would be the equivalent to buy stock from a company with a low earnings per share, i.e., lots of investors bought this “company” already and present returns look thin, anyway, if this company shows grow potential and is a market leader, keep buying is still a safe bet (forward looking). That would be the Blue Chips or Grow/Large Cap stocks. Some investors prefer to buy cheap stocks that have been overlooked by the market and, eventually, may have skyrocket returns, we call “Value” stocks. It seems to me that Buzios (RJ) is like a Blue Chip, while Buzios (RN) is the “Value” stock. Of course, someone may end up stuck with 2-3 “value” stocks before actually get one right; it depends of investor preferences. IMHO, the most crucial information is the market one (international, national, local, industry, and so on); these sort of information is fundamental to indicate which direction to go and when. Then, someone can use its “feeling” or on the ground perspective. Because of that, I believe that the research done by JMBroad is just about everything, and he should be well paid for that…
If you wish, now you can say: “Yeap, you were right, you aren’t a property investor!”. Just, please, save me.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to ask what people's investment strategies are in regards to property. Heres mine:

Prices are driven by supply and demand so if property is selling at that price then it isn't crazy whatever it is. Please note I do say "is selling". There is a reason why the estate agents maxim is "Location, location, location".

I used to think prices were crazy in some spots on the Costa del Sol 15 years ago. and oh how I wished I had bought more then. That wish still holds even in todays climate.

I certainly agree that some property is overpriced (crazy prices) in comparison to other similar property in the same area, but that is where research and a proper comparison comes in.

When I buy I don't look at price per m2 in comparison to other areas. That is just a fools game which will only lead you to buy something in the backwoods which you never would want to visit, can never rent and can never sell anyway.

What I do is ask myself does the place i am buying in have redeeming features which compare to other places which have already seen good increases in the past and is the type of property I am buying going to benefit from those price rises. This doesn't guarantee instant riches, but I am not poor at all.

I would buy in Buzios right now (not the dump south of Natal, the one near Rio) even though the prices are astronomical compared to what you can get in the NE, because I know it is an established resort town which is frequented by the wealthy of Brazil. Right now Brazil is getting richer so the prices can only go up.

Any Comments?

 

[Dotty]

Nice photo , pity it's so far away! I think that most beach areas along the coast look pretty much like that -Grancandu,Pitangi,Maxaruguape etc ,but there are a exceptions .Where are the lagoons in the snap?

 

[davehoskings]

Nice photo , pity it's so far away! I think that most beach areas along the coast look pretty much like that -Grancandu,Pitangi,Maxaruguape etc ,but there are a exceptions .Where are the lagoons in the snap?

Only an agent could tell me that a photo of somewhere covered in garbage is a nice photo....

 

[davehoskings]

Let me say up front that I’m not a property investor, I just visited RN and CE to short list places to have a Summer house; naturally, if prices go up after I buy it, much better. So, here my two cents:
It seems to me that what you call high price per sq m would be the equivalent to buy stock from a company with a low earnings per share, i.e., lots of investors bought this “company” already and present returns look thin, anyway, if this company shows grow potential and is a market leader, keep buying is still a safe bet (forward looking). That would be the Blue Chips or Grow/Large Cap stocks. Some investors prefer to buy cheap stocks that have been overlooked by the market and, eventually, may have skyrocket returns, we call “Value” stocks. It seems to me that Buzios (RJ) is like a Blue Chip, while Buzios (RN) is the “Value” stock. Of course, someone may end up stuck with 2-3 “value” stocks before actually get one right; it depends of investor preferences. IMHO, the most crucial information is the market one (international, national, local, industry, and so on); these sort of information is fundamental to indicate which direction to go and when. Then, someone can use its “feeling” or on the ground perspective. Because of that, I believe that the research done by JMBroad is just about everything, and he should be well paid for that…
If you wish, now you can say: “Yeap, you were right, you aren’t a property investor!”. Just, please, save me.

Whilst I agree like stocks fundamentals are crucial, treating property like stocks is very risky. I can trhow $10k at 5 stocks and hope that one goes up at least 5x, but I can't buy 5 properties and hope one goes up 5 times. I just don't have that much capital to leave lying around doing nothing when with a bit of homework I could be making money on all 5 properties.

 

[Dotty]

If I was an agent I would be advertising myself as one ,simple as that! I would probably have plenty of customers to sell to ,but I don't have the patience to drag people around to sell for % .My interests are personal property investments and have been for quite some time in Brasil , so as from experience and with that comes knowledge -I am pretty much able to know what I am talking about most of the time,even if others care not to agree.

Now going back to the photo where are the lagoons?

 

[davehoskings]

If I was an agent I would be advertising myself as one ,simple as that! I would probably have plenty of customers to sell to ,but I don't have the patience to drag people around to sell for % .My interests are personal property investments and have been for quite some time in Brasil , so as from experience and with that comes knowledge -I am pretty much able to know what I am talking about most of the time,even if others care not to agree.

Now going back to the photo where are the lagoons?

So how many properties have you bought and sold exactly?

Re the photo, the point about the photo is that it was a photo used in a promotional magazine and all those white dots you see in patches are plastic bags. This doesn't suprise me as I keep hearing that the local govt. are too busy collecting backhanders to bother with cleaning the place up.

 

[Dotty]

Most have been long term investments and some also include your favourite 2 places,Jeri and Buzios .

Where are the lagoons?

 

[davehoskings]

Most have been long term investments and some also include your favourite 2 places,Jeri and Buzios .

Where are the lagoons?

In my book that makes you a dabbler, not a property investor, I live off the proceeds I make. I also don't need to lie about the places I have bought in to ensure there is interest in my property.

Is the lagoon question a trick question? What about this for an answer: The lagoons are in buzios.

BTW, I heard some more interesting stories about your favorite developer Delphi, there seem to be a few licensing problems with a couple of their projects.

 

[Mineiro]

Dave, could you tell us where your properties are ? I'd be very interested to hear . You certainly seem to know just about everything. By the way I looked at the photo and can't see any garbage. I do agree though that it looks far from pleasant.

 

[jamesww]

My strategy is water front property in an area that has just become a popular tourist destination in the last 3-5 years. Preferably with a population of 12,000 or more.

I have not done a great deal of investing in non-U.S. properties but those that I have on the above guide lines have done very well for me.

 

[JMBroad]

Dave, could you tell us where your properties are ? I'd be very interested to hear . You certainly seem to know just about everything. By the way I looked at the photo and can't see any garbage. I do agree though that it looks far from pleasant.

The road goes through the middle of the picture. The two houses "beachfront of the road" nearest to the cameraman are dotted by plastic bags of rubbish. On the other side of the road you can make out a garden which is also covered with rubbish bags.

Not a great promotional pic to be sure. Reminds me of the time the Madeiran tourist board decided to make their advertising logo: "Madeira - you can have your cake and eat it" which was great for the Brit tourists but when translated into a dozen languages left a lot of people wondering what they were on about.

 

[Dotty]

I think Brasil is not the kind of place for you and maybe you should stay in the U.K as all you seem to do is run Brasil down and it's places .

In my book that makes you a dabbler, not a property investor, I live off the proceeds I make. I also don't need to lie about the places I have bought in to ensure there is interest in my property.

Is the lagoon question a trick question? What about this for an answer: The lagoons are in buzios.

BTW, I heard some more interesting stories about your favorite developer Delphi, there seem to be a few licensing problems with a couple of their projects.