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I want to invest in property, where is best

Discussion in 'Buying Overseas Property' started by PyramidJames, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. PyramidJames

    PyramidJames New Member

    I am looking to invest in property, I am purely looking to make money on the property not use it for a holiday home, I have been looking at Dubai, Southern Cyprus but I’m concerned I’m to late, I am also considering Northern Cyprus & Bulgaria, the prices are great but I’m not sure on the risks invoiced or the predicted return I could receive.

    I have also looked at the USA as property is hitting rock bottom but again I’m not sure if or when it will go back up.

    If anybody knows where the best places overseas to invest I would really appreciate some advice.



    Thank you

    James
     
  2. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    I like to do a uniqueness test. Problem now is there is so much choice, that competition for your resale market will be fierce and resale costs are high (many agents want at least 5%).

    Ive invested in Germany but its a difficult market to operate in.

    The best is the Government development known as Saidia in Mediterrenean Morocco - there is nothing that can compare.

    You will find immensly more facilities on this one development compared with ANY other, to include the biggest most modern marina in the Med.
     
  3. PyramidJames

    PyramidJames New Member

    Morocco

    Thank you for that buddy, do you know of any risks in Morocco, my friend went there on holiday last year and was told not to leave the complex because of security??? I see 1 bed properties start from around £50k do you know anything about possible return over the next few years??
     
  4. Property Developer

    Property Developer New Member

    I have seen guaranteed return offers in Morocco but if you are a first time investor why not consider something closer to home first.

    There are a lot of funds where you can invest from £20K even using your SIPP to acquire a holding in a property deal
     
  5. PyramidJames

    PyramidJames New Member

    I have invested quite a lot in southern Spain but that market is saturated now, maybe I have been spoilt with the returns I have experienced in the past, which countries do you recommend I look at for best return?
     
  6. Property Developer

    Property Developer New Member

    Sorry, by closer to home I meant the UK. What sort of returns are you looking for?

    Tony
     
  7. PyramidJames

    PyramidJames New Member

    Hi Tony

    I do quite a bit in the UK, buy to let, but its getting harder to find good deals thats why im looking abroad.

    Cheers

    James
     
  8. deejay-55

    deejay-55 New Member

    A condohotel unit in Orlando USA could be a possibility, if you get one with a good management programme - but as you say, who knows when it will go up again?
     
  9. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    PyramidJames. This might seem cheeky, but are you sure your friend was in Morocco and not Egypt? Several friends have been to Egypt and made that sort of remark (not leaving complex without guard), but I don’t know anyone that has been to Morocco and said the same. (Been there twice, travelling under my own steam and never felt in anyway threatened. Not even when pulled over by police – a regular occurrence if you drive there.)

    Morocco has its problems and stability / perception of stability is one of them. There is an Islamic element and the fear many potential investors have is that it will come to the fore (with impact that could have on prices.) Many of us on the forum have assessed in detail where we think Morocco sits on the risk versus reward curve. Investy and I are among those having done so and subsequently taken the step of investing there. Rentals will vary. Given you don’t intend to use the property I’d say you were better getting somewhere in Marrakesh or one of the other cities where year round rentals can be achieved. Property Developer mentioned funds. One fund/loan to a developer that might of interest if Morocco is on your radar is provided by Midas PLC. Think 75% returns are available over 2 years with land being used as security for part of your investment. You can approach them directly or talk to Goldberg Global from this forum (they act as an agent for Midas.)
     
  10. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Soup Dragon has a point about Marrakech, its a real economic powerhouse and rent yields can be good.

    Make sure you have any funds invested properly recorded by the exchange authorities, as this will make your exit route simple. Mine and Soup Dragons developer (we invested in Saidia) did this on our behalve.

    I still prefer Saidia as I think its a unique development not just in Morocco, but in the world.
     
  11. Investy

    Investy Senior Member


    Yes thats why I went abroad for some investing. Uk commercial can be useful if you think out side the box (Ive seen an old school outside Cambridge for £300,000 which is part rented by the council). Imagine if you got permission to turn that into period flats!!!!!!!!!!
    Risky though, and the yield as it stands is poor.
     
  12. queenie40something

    queenie40something Senior Member

    Hi I have been to Egypt many many times and never felt unsafe.

    Resorts such as Sharm are very safe and you can walk almost anywhere.

    Have you considered Egypt as an investment?

    Regards

    Alison
     
  13. MLS

    MLS New Member

    Hello PyramidJames,

    You may consider a Montenegro as a good investment regarding rental possibility.
    Rental yield goes from 5 - 8 % depends of areas.
    Summer season have been spread from april to october and also is possible to long term lease apartment. March prices for rentals in Budva area which I know good are from 700 Euro up for nice furnitured 2 bedroom apartments. Clients are businessmen from all over the world who are investing here or employed on different projects.

    With constant growth in value of apartments + rentals , you can gain nice revenue in next 5 years here.

    regards,

    MLS
     
  14. Property Developer

    Property Developer New Member

    Have seen that a Guernsey investment company has lauched a fund investing in Montenegro
     
  15. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Queenie40something. I did consider Egypt a while ago. Long season, low entry cost and exclusivity of some resorts appealed (El Gouna was my favoured one at the time.) I wasn’t put off by terrorism (easy to see that only has a short term affect on rental returns as tourists keep coming here.) However, I was concerned by how terrorism and possible over supply of property could affect appreciation (hence my preference for El Gouna.) At the time I heard one story of someone that had difficulty taking their money out of Egypt. Shortly after that I was at a Property Expo that was attended by the only agency (at that time) based in El Gouna. One person at their stall was mentioning how well she had done with her properties there appreciating. I asked her if she knew of anyone having difficulty getting their money out of Egypt and she blushed. I took that as a yes and quickly lost interest. That was perhaps 3 years ago. I’ve since learned from someone that used to post on C4 forum that this lady’s problems have been her own doing. He wouldn’t share what it was she had done to create the problems. Obviously don’t take my word on ease of taking your money out of the country – just one thing that I’m sure is on your due diligence radar.

    MLS. I’d have thought the summer season in Montenegro was shorter than that. A friend was in Krk (Croatia) at the weekend helping one of his friends in setting up an agency there. He commented on how quiet and cold the place was and how busy it would become once the season is in full swing. I assume Montenegro will see a similar season – a little shorter than the duration you gave.

    Property Developer. Do you know when the Montenegro fund will be closed or has it already been closed and launched? What was the minimum investment? Is it Argyll Investment Services that are offering it? (One they have had for a couple of years is performing well – latest valuation has shares being 188 Euros each when they were 100 Euros at launch.)
     
  16. Sean@Phuket

    Sean@Phuket New Member

    Somewhere to investy

    Dear James, I dont know if I am to late to make a suggestion but anyway...

    I am an agent, in Phuket, therefore im going to recomend here, Phuket.
    Phuket is a fine fine place James, it has a world wide reputation as a great holidaying destination, and its just beautiful in my, and many others eyes, the number 1 destination in Asia.
    Now the market here is 'booming', there are some fantastic developments to choose from, residencial resorts, exclusive developments, or private developments, if you are not sure about new builds, or just not interested in something new, there is a market for re-sales, which is showing encouraging signs of growth. And there are some lovely places to choose from.
    Most new developments come with a holiday rental programe, they are offering good guaranteed rental yields, here is one example; investing (i will convert to GBP) £193,000 in a Pool Suite Condominium, on 55% occupanancy, for the first year you will have a return of 5.5%, after 5 years this will rise to 13.9%, these figures are net of tax, fees, commissions etc. They are very conservative and based on research completed on occupancy levels and room rates that are being achieved at other leading resorts.
    If you invest in a re-sale property, you can rent to your own clients, otherwise intrust in an agent to promote your property, and rent it out accordingly.
    Dont forget the annual increase in the property itself, about 10 to 20% per year, depending on the area.

    I hope this can answer your question

    Sean
     
  17. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Sean. £193k for a condo in Thailand seems expensive. Some very good developments in Phuket are charging less than that for 3 bedroom detached villas. What makes this development so special? (Let people know what they should Google if they want to find out more.)
     
  18. MLS

    MLS New Member

    To The Soup Dragon,

    I think you can not compare island Krk in Croatia and Montenegro, because we have few degree warmer weather, Montenegro is much on the south of Adriatic Sea and diversify of coast and offer surely attracts more tourists in early stage of season. You may compare it with Dubrovnik area however, but we have much lower prices.
    Btw, all mayor hotels are booked untill the end of september.

    regards,

    MLS
     
  19. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Thanks for response MLS. Do you have a feel for availability of holiday apartments along Montenegro’s coast and Kotor Bay? I ask as most property advertised through the web is for apartments in this area and a lot of them will be completed over the next year or two.

    Had quick look (link beneath) and can see the temperatures are pleasant from April to October - even if not beach weather all the way.

    EuroWEATHER - Climate averages: Dubrovnik, Croatia - Maximum temperature
     
  20. neustria

    neustria New Member

    I think that the US market could be good because it is getting very distressed now. As countries go it is certainly a safe choice because, for example, local corruption for the investor is not going to be an issue. Also the dollar is weak so those wishing to purchase in stronger currencies will see their money go a long way.

    On the down side are the present uncertainties about the state of the overall economy which, some analysts say, is facing the biggest challenges to it since the Great Depression. How long it will take for the light to appear at the end of the tunnel is anybody's guess.

    Another idea which is not often mentioned here would be investing in Costa Rica. Investments there are denominated in US dollars so the exchange advantage is the same as for the United States. The country is very stable politically. Strong environmental laws regulate real estate projects so that the unique natural beauty of the country is and will be preserved. The country has coastline on the Pasific and on the Caribbean and also has mountainous regions. The climate is very hospitable. Recently the market has been given a notable boost by US and Europe - based investors looking for investment solutions away from their home markets. European investors especially stand to benefit because the investments are taken in US dollars, which is now at historical lows to the euro. I know of a reliable and 100% honest broker who is a native English speaker and who has an excellent knowledge of the local market. She operates out of Dominical on the Pacific coast. Anybody who might interested in contacting her - even for general information about the situation there - can send me a private message, and I will give them the contact information.

    Neustria
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2008
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