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Has anyone bought property in Taiba (Fortaleza)?

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by HelleE, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. HelleE

    HelleE New Member

    Hello!

    I'm just about to pay the reservation fee to the Real Estate agent selling the an apartment that we're (hopefully) buying if everything goes right.

    Thought I'd try and hear throught this forum if anyone have heard of, or have bought in the same project. :confused:

    There are two projects that are being built in Taiba (about 60 kilometres from Fortaleza) - Taiba gardens 1 and Taiba gardens 2. The developer is Beach Land Developments and is owned by a Mr Irineu Guimaraes. We've looked at a few different Real Estates and finally decided to go through one called Sandgarden homes (based in UK). This Real Estate, together with the other ones we've looked at (Property Bond and Beach front Brazil), all seems to somehow work under the same licence, same licence that belongs to the owner of development company (Mr Irineu). All these Real Estates also seems to work with the same Legal firm. So we'd automatically get same lawyer no matter which of these three Real Estates we'd choose, unless we pay for an independent lawyer.

    Has anyone heard of the above mentioned names? Anyone bought/thinking of buying in Taiba gardens 1 or Taiba gardens 2 ? And has anyone consulted the law firm Alexandre Rodrigues de Albuquerque Law Office in Fortaleza?

    Hope to hear from someone soon !

    Have a great day! :)

    Regards
     
  2. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    Pay for the independent lawyer it is worth every cent.

    If these agents are telling you not to use an independent lawyer or giving lots of reasons why you shouldn't, then walk away.
     
  3. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Got to agree there, your post seems to infer that if you take their lawyer they will pay the bill? Alarm bells are ringing. A lawyer suggested to you by an agent isn't necessarily bad but one paid by your estate agent? Big no-no.

    I don't know the development personally but let me do some checks and I'll let you know what I find.
     
  4. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Very brief check:

    Looks like a nice development - very small village so check access routes if that is something likely to concern you. (aka dirt roads vs tarmac)

    Norwegian builders with a Brazilian partner - several sites promoting the development mention that payments should be made to a norwegian bank account. (read the posts about your investment money having to go through the Banco Central if you are thinking about repatriation of funds)

    Apart from that nothing glaring but as I said this was only a very basic search (searching in Portuguese can often bring to light many interesting articles which aren't translated into other languages).

    Assuming you can cover all of the above (that you aren't paying the money into a Norwegian bank account) and are happy with the access roads, just make sure you get a competent lawyer to represent you in the purchase.

    Manzanares seem to have been used by quite a few buyers on these forums who (appear) content with their services, but ask around.
     
  5. mitico67

    mitico67 New Member

    Hi you should definitely go for an indipendent lawyer, also bear in mind that the agents will get a commission between 5-25%. Did you ask them what will they offer you for this fee as opposed for you and your solicitor to deal directly with the developer?
     
  6. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    25% commission? Which agents have you been dealing with?
     
  7. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    If you want an English speaking Brazilian lawyer in the UK try Nabas Legal Consultancy in London (close to London Bridge)- Vitoria Nabas is the owner and they have several lawyers qualified in the UK and Brazil. Get details etc on the Internet easily. Other than that I endorse what others are saying- under no circumstances send money to anywhere but Brasil as it will not get registered. Some of these developers from Europe look to get the major part of the profit out of Brasil hands, but only money entering Brasil will get registered to enable you to repatriate the money at some future date.
     
  8. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    Re sending money direct to Brazil, get a lawyer to check it out, you can send the money to a lawyer's trust account and this money can then be sent on to Brazil in the Client's name. There are also some developers who are taking the money in Europe and are registering the money in the client's name in Brazil. I have seen this work before, but you need to get proper advice to make sure it will work for you.
     
  9. HelleE

    HelleE New Member

    Hi,

    thanks for checking. But I'm not sure we're talking about the same project? I'm aware that there's a big Norweigan project in Taiba, it's more a resort with different types of houses, while this project we're looking at is just one building with apartments. It's called Taiba gardens I, and has sometimes been referred to as Taiba beach gardens.

    What's Manzanares ? Legal firm?

    Buy, the way the owners of the Agent we're going through (Sandgarden homes) is not based i UK, but in Brazil (I gave wrong info first).
     
  10. DAK123

    DAK123 New Member

    I have bought villa in Taiba (Paraiso Pa Taiba)

    Yes we have bought villa in Taiba from Mr. IRINEU GUMARAES. I have talked to a guy called Christian Champion (developer together with mr. Irineu) from New York City. Everyhing seems ok. Very quick and friendly responding. We got our contract with stamps and signed from notary and have now transfered money to Brazil. Today I got confirmation from Christian and a copy of the tranfer from the brazil bank. I think everything is ok, and that you can trust the company......WE DO.......
     
  11. taureanjohn

    taureanjohn New Member

    Taiba

    Hi,
    Paraiso is differnet development. I too have bought in Taiba Beach Gardens (Phase 1). The developer-whom I have contacted- is Mike Colwill of Sand Garden Homes (They have a website). He answered my queries promptly. The agent I used was Beachfront Brazil. I have used the recommended lawyer and have had no problems so far- indeed I got the contract amended in my favour. I was told originally completion would be April 2008- have you heard any different?
     
  12. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Just one point I have to re-iterate. Do not pay money to anyone but the developer/owner of the project. You should never pay an agent for him to pass the money to a developer. And do check out the story that you can pay the money to a lawyer client account in Europe and they will register the money in your name here in Brazil! Just ask yourself, why would they want to do that? Ask the question and query the answer. When you pay money from Europe to a Brasilian company or individual, the only way they can get the funds into their account is to declare (show) the contract at their bank and the funds will then be registered at the central bank of Brasil. This is not the UK where you can trust probably 99% of solicitors.
     
  13. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    This is Brasil where corruption is very high. There is a paranoia about black money, and if you want to repatriate your money some time in the future you will need to prove the money entered legally (ie properly registered). Otherwise you will not only not get your money out, but possibly be investigated as to how the money came in. The justice system also is different. They can put you in prison till you prove your innocence! DO NOT BELIEVE ALL YOU HEAR FROM AGENTS!! Check everything with your own lawyer- not one working for the developer! I do not want anyone to be put off investing here, but do it right and you will have a profitable and enjoyable investment.

    (excuse 2 posts but I am having trouble sending long messages!)
     
  14. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I agree in general about giving money to an agent to pass on to a developer, we sometimes take reservations but that is the limit, plus you open yourself up to all sorts of legal problems as you are transferring money on behalf of someone else (a sure way to get the wrong kind of attention from the regulators).

    The reason why money sometimes goes to lawyers in Europe is because it is held in escrow until various licenses are in place, etc.. This keeps the client happy and the developer also knows that the client has the money.

    Most European lawyers have a special trust account which allows them to send and receive money in the clients name. What this means is that the money can be registered in the clients name in Brazil as it has legally been sent to Brazil with the client's name as the sender.

    Rob.
     
  15. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    "Most European lawyers have a special trust account which allows them to send and receive money in the clients name. What this means is that the money can be registered in the clients name in Brazil as it has legally been sent to Brazil with the client's name as the sender. "

    I assume that there has been some special arrangement agreed with the central bank of Brasil for this. Also I assumed that because legally you are not allowed to start selling unless all permissions are in place this device is used so that the sales can start (reservation deposits taken) outside Brasil so as not to infringe the law here. What people need to make sure of is that the full purchase price money arrives here in their name and that it is declared on their escritura.
     
  16. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    My own experience is that the money has to come from the bank account of the buyer. I had one instance where where the buyer was going to set up a company for his investments and since that would delay things bought in his own name on the contract to change at notary to the company name. However the money came from the account in the UK of his partner, quoting all the right references, contract etc. but was rejected as was not in the buyers name! It then had to be sent again to conform with rules.
     
  17. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Ok, I will repeat again.

    The money sent from a lawyers trust account is sent IN THE CLIENT'S NAME, you don't need permission from the brazil central bank because the money is being sent IN THE CLIENT'S NAME.

    I noticed that you are talking about Gran Natal and how money is being taken for reservations. By the sounds of it the money isn't being held in a lawyer's trust account, but if it was then Gran Natal is a classic case where a lawyer in Europe would be used to hold the money until all the licenses are granted.
     
  18. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Rob- the reason I suggested that there must be a special arrangement is because the money you say is sent in the clients' name but not from the clients' own bank account, which was the problem this purchaser experienced. His colleague sent the money to the seller, in the name of the person on the contract, but as it did not arrive from that person's account it was rejected. It may depend on the bank's interpretation of anti money laundering rules etc. but that is what happened.
     
  19. robh

    robh Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't happen in this case, because the actual name of the sender on the swift order itself is changed to the buyer's name, the lawyer is not on the order. The reason why this is done is because legally (money laundering laws etc..) the money belongs to the buyer so they have to be the sender of the money. So when the central bank looks at whose account the money came from the only name that pops up is the buyer's.

    I too didn't believe this could work until I saw it work a few times.
     
  20. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Could well be a different development, as I mentioned I don't know it personally and just did a quick check in Portuguese about the development and that's what came back. Manzanares is a legal firm, yes and is very well connected in Rio Grande do Norte.
     
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