Grand Natal Golf Goes Bankcrupt!

[michaelbush]

The Spanish company with the problems is a different legal entity to the separate company in Brazil. I have a source as I said, close to GS Brazil and they are apparently going to exhibit in Madrid from 13th April. This depends on the last licence being signed off this week. As for deposits, then they will only be returned if the contract is broken by GS by not getting licences within 12 months of reservation, and we understand there is a bank guarantee for this. People should read their contracts, seek info from the selling agent and GS, and stop spreading rumours without knowledge. In addition even if GS Brazil gets caught up in the financial problems of the spanish company, the project itself may well not be affected since there a number of partner companies in the project. Why do people love to see the failures rather than successes? I have not been involved in sales of this project, but am closer than many who post here.

 

[DC]

Michael, if your money (mine is not) is at stake, you would want to know if one partner of the development you have brought into has gone bust and to say they are different companies, legally is true, (or probably true),people want facts not fiction.

It would be big alarm bells to any one interested in keeping their financial health and security, and the financial viability of the partners in the business.

I think you must be detached from the money, I would very uncomfortable if I invested there, especially as along way from EU, companies going bankrupt, stories in the press of things not going well. But hey lets look at the successes. The successes we all get up each day, work hard, and have a chance to make a great life.

If I had clients in this development. I would get them to speak to legal council, and not on any terms invest money (further) without securities in place.

I dont want/need to know this, but any investor would be using alot of bank money as leverage in this deal. So they can only minimally lose a certain amount of their own finance if it all went wrong (which at the moment, it aint going 100% right, if partners subsidiaries are hitting the financial bank rupt wall). So let see how much the bank will finance and stop burning private investors money.

Banks do checks and are suppose to be professional, lets see how much risk the bank is willing to hold. You can get bank finance on this cant you?

My advice is if things are looking like bad news on the outside, be sure they are alot worse inside!

 

[Golfingworld]

There are two issues here, the theory and the reality. The reality is that these highly speculative "mega" developments are highly geared, in other words they need a high volume of investment to fund them and the marketing and Agency costs. The fact is whether one part of the consortium is bust or not, the confidence to invest is totally bust....this will affect the cash flow and ability for the scheme to be financed. Word gets around and nobody in their right mind will put a penny more into this scheme..new or old..s how they going to fund it..answer they are not..it is a sinking ship now as nobody investing can afford to beleive what anybody says true or false...and if they are sensible they will steer well clear...this will cause the failure of the scheme whatever the reality. Just the same as banks getting cold feet and getting nervous to lend creating the credit crunch...it's about confidence not whether one Agent or lawyer says it is fine or not. Your best loss if there can be one is the one that is minimised and you get out quick not throwing good money after bad on a lost cause..take your medicine and move on.

 

[Dotty]

I agree totally.This is not Disney Land this is Brazil the Northeast one of the poorest in the whole of Brazil.It was never the place for 8 hotels ,mega golfing mechanics nor 1000,s apartments.If so why not build it in Spain or Dubai now that would be something !Or do they already have them there??

There are two issues here, the theory and the reality. The reality is that these highly speculative "mega" developments are highly geared, in other words they need a high volume of investment to fund them and the marketing and Agency costs. The fact is whether one part of the consortium is bust or not, the confidence to invest is totally bust....this will affect the cash flow and ability for the scheme to be financed. Word gets around and nobody in their right mind will put a penny more into this scheme..new or old..s how they going to fund it..answer they are not..it is a sinking ship now as nobody investing can afford to beleive what anybody says true or false...and if they are sensible they will steer well clear...this will cause the failure of the scheme whatever the reality. Just the same as banks getting cold feet and getting nervous to lend creating the credit crunch...it's about confidence not whether one Agent or lawyer says it is fine or not. Your best loss if there can be one is the one that is minimised and you get out quick not throwing good money after bad on a lost cause..take your medicine and move on.

 

[RalphJ]

Michael, if your money (mine is not) is at stake, you would want to know if one partner of the development you have brought into has gone bust and to say they are different companies, legally is true, (or probably true),people want facts not fiction.

It would be big alarm bells to any one interested in keeping their financial health and security, and the financial viability of the partners in the business.

I think you must be detached from the money, I would very uncomfortable if I invested there, especially as along way from EU, companies going bankrupt, stories in the press of things not going well. But hey lets look at the successes. The successes we all get up each day, work hard, and have a chance to make a great life.

If I had clients in this development. I would get them to speak to legal council, and not on any terms invest money (further) without securities in place.

I dont want/need to know this, but any investor would be using alot of bank money as leverage in this deal. So they can only minimally lose a certain amount of their own finance if it all went wrong (which at the moment, it aint going 100% right, if partners subsidiaries are hitting the financial bank rupt wall). So let see how much the bank will finance and stop burning private investors money.

Banks do checks and are suppose to be professional, lets see how much risk the bank is willing to hold. You can get bank finance on this cant you?

My advice is if things are looking like bad news on the outside, be sure they are alot worse inside!

You can't get bank finance on this project unless you can show proof of income in Brazil. There are no international banks providing loans for foreigners to buy properties in Brazil. For one to accomplish that you need to put up another asset as collateral and get the loan from where the asset exists.

You've been "bang-on" goldberg, people here in Brazil get ripped off left and right and the biggest reason is they have no idea what they're getting themselves into and they trust agents that in many cases don't know what they're into as well.

As Raimundo has stated here of late, he's someone that has spent time in Brazil, travelled all around it, invested monies, and he found out like most find out, through experience. Unfortunately NOT getting ripped off in Brazil is more rare than getting ripped off.

 

[Dotty]

Ralph,
You are so right! I know I tend to voice my opinion quite a lot,but it is not with bad intentions,just to help people become aware that it is not all beer and barbies in Brasil,though it may appear attractive,the beautiful folders,the famous faces,the wonderful,magical sales talk in plush offices the actual bottom line is people really need to work these companies out.How many buyers know what goes on under Brazilian law.?How many overseas developers truely understand Brasilian law? Law here is like no other,everything that is ever spoken on tv or whoever you talk to,you will always hear a Brasilian say(nos temos uma lei aqui em Brazil..........) If you do not have theat special document then you have been ..................

 

[PAUL-brasil]

Ralph,
You are so right! I know I tend to voice my opinion quite a lot,but it is not with bad intentions,just to help people become aware that it is not all beer and barbies in Brasil,though it may appear attractive,the beautiful folders,the famous faces,the wonderful,magical sales talk in plush offices the actual bottom line is people really need to work these companies out.How many buyers know what goes on under Brazilian law.?How many overseas developers truely understand Brasilian law? Law here is like no other,everything that is ever spoken on tv or whoever you talk to,you will always hear a Brasilian say(nos temos uma lei aqui em Brazil..........) If you do not have theat special document then you have been ..................

Very true Dotty,
Most real estate companies selling from Europe know F ALL, I have spoken to so many by pretending to be a first timer and never been to Brazil and I am often shocked by their little knowledge from basic questions an investor would ask.

 

[Dotty]

Oh,how to make millions!!

 

[KDJX]

Well I dont know if GS Brazil are limping on or not but my wife and I rolled up a their offices in Natal last Monday week for a pre arranged appointment. They did not seem to be expecting us and unfortunately as it was raining and they only had a small car available they could not show us the site. They would have a big car that afternoon so we took a bus ride from hell back to our hotel in Ponta Negra for a re-arranged 2pm meeting. They failed to show and gave no apology. It seems it was 'just not possible' as they had other potential clients to attend to....Beckham and Ronaldo perhaps or maybe someone who had not yet parted with their deposits !!

All in all pretty shabby treatment of one of their investors. All was not lost as a combination of Buggy's, Donkeys and Camels got us to the site where we found a road adjacent with small cars going along it. Ho Hum.

 

[RalphJ]

Well I dont know if GS Brazil are limping on or not but my wife and I rolled up a their offices in Natal last Monday week for a pre arranged appointment. They did not seem to be expecting us and unfortunately as it was raining and they only had a small car available they could not show us the site. They would have a big car that afternoon so we took a bus ride from hell back to our hotel in Ponta Negra for a re-arranged 2pm meeting. They failed to show and gave no apology. It seems it was 'just not possible' as they had other potential clients to attend to....Beckham and Ronaldo perhaps or maybe someone who had not yet parted with their deposits !!

All in all pretty shabby treatment of one of their investors. All was not lost as a combination of Buggy's, Donkeys and Camels got us to the site where we found a road adjacent with small cars going along it. Ho Hum.

That's truly a shame how you and your wife were treated KDJX....but unfortunately doesn't surprise me.

 

[wolfgang]

Well I dont know if GS Brazil are limping on or not but my wife and I rolled up a their offices in Natal last Monday week for a pre arranged appointment. They did not seem to be expecting us and unfortunately as it was raining and they only had a small car available they could not show us the site. They would have a big car that afternoon so we took a bus ride from hell back to our hotel in Ponta Negra for a re-arranged 2pm meeting. They failed to show and gave no apology. It seems it was 'just not possible' as they had other potential clients to attend to....Beckham and Ronaldo perhaps or maybe someone who had not yet parted with their deposits !!

All in all pretty shabby treatment of one of their investors. All was not lost as a combination of Buggy's, Donkeys and Camels got us to the site where we found a road adjacent with small cars going along it. Ho Hum.

Keith,
I am unclear from your post as to whether or not Grupo Sanchez took you to their site.You say that they did not turn up to take you but later say you WERE taken by donkeys! So did they take you or not?
(Old joke i know but i liked it the first time around too )

 

[Dotty]

Oh what a pity,I wonder how many more are in the same situation ? Grupo Sanchez recently dispensed of 40 staff in Natal,so the innocent lose out once again.

 

[KDJX]

Keith,
I am unclear from your post as to whether or not Grupo Sanchez took you to their site.You say that they did not turn up to take you but later say you WERE taken by donkeys! So did they take you or not?
(Old joke i know but i liked it the first time around too )

Yeah. I added 'Donkeys' to the story because I knew you would like to use that old joke again. I also added 'Camels' just in case you had an appropriate variation !!

If a lot of staff have been dismissed then I guess I can partly understand the lack of enthusiasm. Anyway we got to the site under our own steam and it is a hugely impressive location.

K

 

[Dotty]

Do you know that yesterday I was reading The Sunday Telegraph travel/ property section and came across an article by the journalist(another that knows F.A )that had written that investors should look at GRAND NATAL GOLF as an investment. I was horrified . How is it possible a so called journalist can mislead readers in such a way?Iwould sack him on the spot!Enough investors have been stung badly already.

 

[michaelbush]

Do you know that yesterday I was reading The Sunday Telegraph travel/ property section and came across an article by the journalist(another that knows F.A )that had written that investors should look at GRAND NATAL GOLF as an investment. I was horrified . How is it possible a so called journalist can mislead readers in such a way?Iwould sack him on the spot!Enough investors have been stung badly already.

The article was probably written months ago, however it is unclear at present as to the future of this development. I am told by someone very very close, that it will get its last licence and that it will go ahead.Also GS does not own the land, and the project is a mix of smaller projects in different areas with different constructors to do each one, and the GNG name is generic for the whole, so GS themselves are less important, other than they were handling the marketing. It is too soon to bury this project! I am not a seller of this project, merely pointing out that we should not dismiss it yet.

 

[Dotty]

No the article was written by a journalist.It was not an add .As for GS being less important(they were actually the ones that got the overseas investor to invest in the project in the 1st place)as a Brazilian would not have touched it with a barge pole.As for a final license there were too many orgs apposed to the project anyway because of sewerage matters and debris along with the nature impact.We have so much rain here at present and lagoons on the mainroads all through Natal as the government have not invested in proper drainage,so everytime a building goes up more chaos!From Roberto Freire to Rota De Sol was so heavily congested because of a hugh lagoons of heavy downpour and no proper sanitation.For those that know Sao Paulo(airport favela route )will know too well the stench .Sadly Natal is going down that route.

The article was probably written months ago, however it is unclear at present as to the future of this development. I am told by someone very very close, that it will get its last licence and that it will go ahead.Also GS does not own the land, and the project is a mix of smaller projects in different areas with different constructors to do each one, and the GNG name is generic for the whole, so GS themselves are less important, other than they were handling the marketing. It is too soon to bury this project! I am not a seller of this project, merely pointing out that we should not dismiss it yet.

 

[michaelbush]

Dotty
My comment was in respect of articles written by journalists are not necessarily used directly, but are usually scheduled to be published well in advance. However I agree that the heavy rains here are a problem, although in Ponta Negra there are a number of new reservoirs for rain water, built and being built. Infrastructure improvements are very slow, like there are many roads in Capim Macio that have not been paved, but I note that behind Extra they have been surfaced- I guess Extra had some pull with the prefectura!

 

[Dotty]

Ah ok,
The cost of improving roads is set at 25,000,000 reais(I doubt it!) in the Ponta Negra area.What amazes me is the incompetence of the government.All around Petropolis the inexperienced engineers of urbanismo have laid grass and planted flowers,but guess what?No sprinklers or underground sprinklers,so what we had was ( yellow grass and dying plants and trees)but god blessed us with the much needed rain and now we have green grass.I mean how can you lay plants without thinking one iota about maintaining and watering the plants!

Dotty
My comment was in respect of articles written by journalists are not necessarily used directly, but are usually scheduled to be published well in advance. However I agree that the heavy rains here are a problem, although in Ponta Negra there are a number of new reservoirs for rain water, built and being built. Infrastructure improvements are very slow, like there are many roads in Capim Macio that have not been paved, but I note that behind Extra they have been surfaced- I guess Extra had some pull with the prefectura!

 

[sharkboy]

With the awaited launch of Reef Club in recife do you think it will have associted problems or is it that GS is the main problem for GNG?
It is said to be waiting its final licence following an historic artifact survey, does this or should it be ringing alarm bells?

 

[deedee1]

Hi,

As far as iM AWARE ALL LICENCES FOR GALATEA HAVE BEEN GRANTED ALREADY AND CONTRSCT ISSUED.

i HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT NOW THIS HAS HAPPENED YOU SHOULD SEE THE LICENCES AND CONTRACTS FOR MILTONIA, MARGINATA AND SOLANUM VERY SOON.

Opps sorry for the capitals only just realised!!

take care d