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Golfing in North East Brasil

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by michaelbush, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Hi All

    I thought I would start something that may turn out to be controversial!!
  2. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    There are so many new golf courses planned for the North East of Brasil, I think all of them by European and Scandinavian developers. I imagine that none of the management have spent more than 2 weeks at a time here!
    If anyone has played in Florida, that is nothing compared to here. Tropical - even equatorial conditions with high humidity, high temperatures and moreover short daylight hours, all make me wonder if golfers will really flock to play!
  3. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Golfing in the North East

    :DNever mind all the hype, conditions for golf are not like Spain and Portugal; in the Natal area the sun rises at 5 ish, and sets at 5 ish and then it is dark- suddenly! From 6 am the sun is hot, by 8am it is really hot. A round of 18 holes would be what - 3 hours or more? How golfers must like to suffer!!!
    Then there is the maintenance cost. How many will go bust? did any of them research the market for golf here among Brasilians? I have not met one who plays or has the inclination to play, due to the heat.
    In the south of Brasil they have a different climate and even daylight saving!
    So if you want golf why buy in the North East?

    That should get things going!!
  4. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    It always amazes me about this forum, every few weeks someone comes on and tells everyone that they are idiots, that no-one knows anything and that everyone is going to get ripped off.

    The one thing that is consistent though is the same ulterior motive, the person doing the criticising is selling the "good" property that no-one else can get hold of.

    Good luck to you and your brethren.
  5. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Well, well Beenthere!! Nothing constructive to add? I was hoping some of the golfers out there could comment!! However your post has nothing to say on the subject line? Why was that? Do you just like to wind others up with your posts? I do actually sell golf resorts too, but am at a loss to understand why they are here in the North East. I have called nobody on this forum an idiot as you suggest, nor was my post criticising others on this forum, nor have I said only I have the best and exclusive properties, nor that everyone will get ripped off! Please BT, if you are going to post keep the subject line of thread in mind and use your brain to say something useful.
  6. KDJX

    KDJX New Member

    ok I'll change the letting brief from 'surrounded with golf courses' to 'surrounded by softly undulating landscaped gardens' ....where you may just spot an occasional European smacking a small ball !!

  7. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Hi KDJX
    Like the humour, but I was being serious. Whilst I have my point of view, I was hoping that others might like to comment on that. Really, is there anyone who believes that golf courses have a place in this Tropical paradise? I did have a thought that perhaps some floodlit driving ranges with covered practice putting greens could work, as I feel sure that the 19th hole will be calling before they past the 4th!! Not being a golfer myself, I a really not entitled to a point of view but I would hate to see all these courses that are planned get to be built and not get used enough to cover costs.
  8. mitico67

    mitico67 New Member

    Hi Michaelbush, according to a norvegian developer I spoke to in Sept when I was in Natal, as I' m skeptical as well, he reckon that lots of scandinavian are mad for golfing and the weather is not a problem at all.
  9. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Think I've posted this somewhere before, but hey... I've never played in Brazil, but I've played in subtropical locations where there really wasn't a market for it. For me it was superb because most of the days I never saw a soul on the course... I could do a full round in as long as I liked (once took 11.5 hours to do 18 hole 4 ball - was my clubs "course record") without any pressure from golfers behind me telling me to speed up.

    Whenever another group did get anywhere near us, if we as much as saw them, we'd wave them through, then get back to the game. Most days though we never saw anyone. We'd amble on to the course at whatever time we liked, without booking a tee-off time then tee'd off slowly and pottered around the course at our own speed, stopped at the half way house for as long as we liked, made a day of it.

    The course itself was beautiful, breathtaking views especially from the 4th green (which is now the 2nd I think)...

    Of course actually playing was bloody hot and we drank a lot of water, but being able to play without any pressure was bliss. (in case you haven't twigged yet, I'm not very good at golf <understatement>).

    The maximum temperature on those days was around 32 ºC and very high humidity (which means you sweat profusely and is generally uncomfortable). But I'd still much rather play in those conditions than in Scotland in the rain and fog or in Spain/Algarve with 7 4-balls queued up behind me and the ranger yelling at us from the sidelines to "hurry up or let them through".

    Oh and btw if anyone wants to go play on that course, it's still open, still absolutely stunning and still hardly anyone plays it during the summer months. It's called Palheiro Golf and is on the island of Madeira, Portugal.

    The challenge is to be able to make enough money to stay open and keep the course in prime condition.
  10. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    The definition of most European golfers could quite easily be "mad". As I said in my post above, I love golf in the conditions mentioned but why anyone would want to play golf in any other conditions than a nice warm (although not too hot) summer day is beyond me.

    When you are as good at Golf as I am, then it's basically all about getting frustrated and annoyed while doing a long walk carrying a big heavy bag. In the sunshine that can be tolerated. But anyone (primarily Scandis and Brits) who would do that in pouring rain and cold damp conditions must be off their trolley.

    Don't forget that a lot of golfers are willing to start their golf game at 8 am in the morning (while on holiday) just to make sure they are the first people off and no one is in front of them, play in the rain, some even play at night or in the snow (Snow Golf in St Moritz - St Moritz or BBC Sport Academy | Golf | Features | Golf on snow? Give it a go!).

    I think golfers are a mad enough breed to play in the heat of Brazil. But we'll have to see if there are enough of them living/staying in the area to make the courses financially independent.
  11. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Hi JM
    That was constructive comment. My main concern is how they will maintain the courses if there are not enough golfers using the facilities. Also there are so many courses planned. If people want to play golf here, I think they may play once and realise that it is too uncomfortable. The clubhouse will be the only place to be! Maybe the answer is to only have 9 hole courses, and as previously suggested some practice facilities which can be covered. I expected quite a deluge of responses, but I guess the lack of golfers, interested in Brasil, may say it all!
  12. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Surprised GW hasn't posted yet to be honest.

    The number of courses is concerning, however there are two golf courses in Madeira and 250k people living on the island, whereas there are almost 800k living in natal alone, nevermind the new developments and the rest of Rio Grande do Norte.

    When the second golf course opened in Madeira, some locals thought it was a great idea, because that nice flat patch of grass was a great place to park the jeep while the family had a picnic. They probably assumed that the flag on that flat piece of grass was a marker indicating where the cars should be parked. That gives you an idea about how well known the sport was on the island when the course opened.

    Today a lot more locals have joined the expats and holidaymakers in playing golf. Whether the same thing can or will happen in Brazil of course is a totally different matter.
  13. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Well, I understand what you are saying, but here in Natal, of the 800k or so Brasilians 25% are under the age of 14, probably 65% or more are female, and I have not met one Brasilian male (or female) interested in the game. If you go south to Salvadore, and much further south to the temperate climate zones, then the story is very different. GS used Ronaldo for their publicity - he is not Natalese! I dont know if he plays golf, but if he does he probably played in the south of Brasil, and in Spain. Since there are no courses yet in the NE there has to be a good reason. My point was that the European developers have not properly researched the business model they would use for Spain or Portugal for example, for this area where the climate conditions have not encouraged the construction previously of even one course.
  14. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    I don't think the courses are being built for the locals, which is pretty obvious to most people. The climate is not much different from Florida and is in fact a hell of lot less humid than Florida where loads of people play golf all year round.

    Funny how you forgot to mention that no Spanish or Portuguese played golf when the first courses were built there, and I would also say that Spanish and Portuguese are not the main clientèle at said courses today.

    Anyway what is your point, you sell property in the area, but you slag it off at the same time. This to me says you are selling something that you don't believe in, which means you are probably the worst type of salesman to ever meet.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  15. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member


    Anyway what is your point, you sell property in the area, but you slag it off at the same time. This to me says you are selling something that you don't believe in, which means you are probably the worst type of salesman to ever meet.[/QUOTE]

    Well I thought the thread might be controversial but I did not expect personal attack!! Naturally the courses are not for the locals- they dont play and probably would not in this climate. The climate here is tropical/equatorial and the humidity is not lower than Florida which is much greater distant from the equator.

    Where have I slagged off the area? I live here- do you? As for being the worst type of salesperson to meet, I think you, Been there, seen it, done it, are the type of know-it-all, self opinionated bigot, that everyone would like to meet!! I do not need to sell to live and thus can give clients an unbiased independent view.
  16. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    Excellent, I have taken the title from Golfxxxx.
  17. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Brazil is a selling point that's is done to get planning permission for developments only. Brazilians know nothing about golf, certainly not in the NE. Golf there will be a novelty nothing more,but they will let anyone play, take their money and for proper golfers it will be a nightmare. There is also the robbery risk on unsecured courses, happens a lot on South Africa. And, don;t forget..can you imagine the rip off price to get your clubs there???? Golf in Brazil will be a joke and it is not a golfing destination for Europeans....groups of golfers take 3/4 days only not 2 weeks holiday and if they do it will be in an all inclusive hotel golfers like after hours entertainment and there is plenty of that in brazil but not in North how you going to explain that to the wife? Brazil for a golfing break with the boys luv? You are kidding aren't you!
  18. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Excellent Golfing! At last a contribution for someone who does play golf! You are quite right- golfers do go off for a 3 or 4 day break not a vacation, and long-haul would not usually be an option. This morning at 10 am it was 34 deg. C here in Natal! It is 6.40pm now and dark! If I had a few million to invest in building a new golf course I certainly would not do it in NE Brasil or in any other tropical\equatorial zone. There are so many courses planned I think all the developers are waiting for the others to start so they can see if it is viable for them. That way none will get built for some time- same happened inSpain- use the tag "and there will a golf course just 2 minutes away" included in the publicity and everyone gets excited. Most never get built!
    Anyway GW - any views on the viability of providing some sheltered practice facilities?
  19. deedee1

    deedee1 New Member

    :)Hi all,

    As much as I do appreciate the debates and varied comments on here I just dont understand why some cannot see the bigger picture sometimes???

    I mean the comments on "TOO HOT TO PLAY GOLF" I understand- But then why do people STILL play golf in very similar conditions at very expensive prices in the caribbean, mexico, egypt even dubai!!!!!! AND BELIEVE ME THATS HOT AND DEFINATELY UNBEARABLE!!

    Also the average round of golf in these places especially the caribbean will set you back about £100-140 a round- BUT MANY STILL PUT UP WITH THE HEAT AND PAY THE EXTORTIONATE COSTS FOR A SINGLE ROUND!!!!

    Are you telling me that all these golfers are either a figment of my imagination or nuts or just plain stupid or all of the above???? :confused:

    Food for thought!!!!

    Take care-D
  20. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Golf wont work in Brazil..I am not going to apy an airline £100 to take my clubs there. It is only there to get planning permission. There will be no proper golf club or competition structure. It is too far and too costly and not a short break destination. nice to live on a golf course but they wont be built properly too costly on there are no tourist companies there to organise will take years and years.
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