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Everybody loves to hate Bulgaria.

Discussion in 'Bulgaria Property' started by z.properties, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. z.properties

    z.properties New Member

    All of you people are so small and single minded that I cannot believe that I'm spending my time (not spending WASTING) here. Please restrain yourself from further insulting Bulgaria or I will take this higher. BAD publicity is BAD for Business. And totallyproperty is getting exactly this. Also Bob please place some order and law here. Stop DESTROYING THE IMAGE.....
     
  2. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Hey, come on Z

    Nobody here is trying to destroy Bulgaria. There are negatives in any property market - all countries included - and you are bound to find some of them on an internet forum.

    Why not post up some of the positives of Bulgaria - there are so very many and that would be a great start - might encourage others too :)

    Cheers
     
  3. propertastic

    propertastic New Member

    Personally I go on facts when I am giving my verdicts as to whether I believe any particular market is a good or bad investment.

    If anyone wants to hear some facts as to why I consider Bansko, Sunny Beach and Golden Sands to be a bad investment and why I consider Sofia, Plovdiv, Veliko Turnovo and the spa towns to be a good investment, I will be glad to provide you with some.
     
  4. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Evening Propertastic

    Quite right there, facts - and the sources from which they came so that they can be backed up - is very important.

    Why don't you post some of this, after all, that's what the forum is about, sharing info and data to help all - and it would be great to have some further info, especially if you live and work in Bulgaria! :) I think everyone would appreciate that!

    Hear from you soon, Cheers,
     
  5. propertastic

    propertastic New Member

    Bad timing. I'm off to Hurghada in six hours' time to check out the market there.

    But there are enough facts and figures in our Bulgarian News Archive to keep everyone busy until I'm back in nine days!
     
  6. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Have a good trip :)

    Catch you later
     
  7. Mikeyv

    Mikeyv New Member

    I love bulgaria, there are a lot of beautiful places to visit i personally think the climate is just right, and best of all everything is 1/2 the price compared with the UK.

    I bought a apartment there in a really nice complex and i am more than happy with my purchase.

    I bought on Aheloy Beach Residence, Black Sea Coast, Bulgaria
     
  8. z.properties

    z.properties New Member

    Well not quite exactly... Sofia is to dirty and overcrowded, Veliko Turnovo is a good investment but, in a really long run. But Plovdiv... It's really the best place in Bulgaria if you want to live in. The streets are clean, the centre is full of smiley happy people, the feel when you get going down main street is indescribable....
     
  9. Lewis

    Lewis New Member

    Bulgaria


    Z,
    Sorry to burst your little bubble matey but the bad publicitly being heaped on the likes of Bulgaria is being done as a direct result of the business practices of some of the the companies operating there. If your company does not fall into this category then the points are not being made about your company. Bad publicity is bad for business and the sooner some, I repeat some, of those companies operating in this business realize it the better. Maybe your time, if you wish to protect your market and your company, would be better spent in doing what you can to bring that unhappy situation to and end.

    Coming on to a free speech style forum and threatening all and sundry (many of whom have been dealt with shabbily in the country you find yourself dealing in and have genuine grievances and warnings to air) is not really becoming of someone who feels they should be above reproach - act accordingly and all will be well. Throwing toys out of prams rarely achieved much - all you get back is the dirty toy.

    What can you do to redress the balance?
    How can you make the people who have been wronged feel good about the dream they once had which is now in tatters?

    Answers on a postage stamp I guess. If writing thoughtless, threatening posts on a forum is the best way you think you can combat what is going on in your market place, then I guess we're doomed.

    I would dearly like to have an agent in Bulgaria I could trust and not lose sleep over doing business with but the very reason I have foregone the temptations of Bulgaria is A. I decided to be patient and cautious (and so missed the easy millions) and B. Now that the market has developed somewhat it is a charter for shady dealings and I would not want my company associated with it.
    In your words, "Bad publicity is bad for business"
    My efforts will be directed elsewhere.
    Bulgaria will still be there in a few years time and hopefully by then it'll more west country than the wild west, that's when I'll step and make an honest euro out of it.
     
  10. z.properties

    z.properties New Member

    So much writter, so little said...
    Anyway thanks for your oppinion....
     
  11. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Hey Z

    Ease off will you please.

    Teepeeseller has some valid points there.

    I think "What can you do to redress the balance? " is a good question. For me, I believe the best agents will win through. In any emerging market there is always this problem. So, if you are selling in Bulgaria, then you need to be seen to create the right impression and be nice to people, honest, trustworthy, transparent in your working methods and helpful (go the extra mile). Being rude to people on here does not help your case.

    Hope to hear some nice things from you about how you believe we can redress the balance....

    Cheers
     
  12. propertastic

    propertastic New Member

    Well a lot of people, including myself, think that London is too dirty and overcrowded too, but that doesn't stop people wanting to buy there!

    Overcrowded mean that there are a lot of people to sell to. I would rather buy in a market that is overcrowded than somewhere that is a ghost town.
     
  13. z.properties

    z.properties New Member

    There's going to be a big water problem there. There's soooo much contruction going on in Sofia {so many people}, that the water resourse will not be enough to support all the neighb. So think twice. Only a few neighb. will have good regular water supply.
     
  14. propertastic

    propertastic New Member

    Having just come back from Hurghada and having seen the amount of construction going on there in a desert, I find it quite hard to believe that Sofia is growing at such a massive pace that there will be problems with water, especially not with the EU investing a lot into the country's infrastructure.

    I have read news items about water being a potential problem in Morocco, but nothing about this in Bulgaria.
     
  15. bulbasaurus

    bulbasaurus New Member

    The only place to make money in Bulgaria is either Sofia or Varna. Pure and simple. Our company has 300 people out in Sofia. We are having to increase wages substantially with zero unemployment and more companies moving their call centres there such as HP. Property is up 30% this year in heart of the centre I am advised by our local staff>

    When you speak to them about Sunny Beach they say things like"ugh" , "it's like lego","been destroyed - awful over development", "rather go to Greece, which is just as near". They can't understand why people want to build apartments there when the season is 3 months - neither can I for that reason... Even if if an apartment is £20k it will have running costs such as service charge, insurance, maintenance etc. If your rental return is less than your running costs then your "rental business" has zero value and you may as well walk away from it and not pay the bills. Result: a graveyard of empty developments, impossible to sell and of no interest to tour operators.

    I read the threads here about the hype the great GDP growth in Bulgaria and EU investments etc this is all FACT. But Bulgarians are not being on the coast only naive investors from Ireland and UK now joined by Poles, Russians and Scandanavians loking for fools gold because its half the price of Spain. So all the GDP growth will mean zilch to property values ( in fact the reverse as higher wage costs will mean running costs will rise).

    Get real folks : you got it wrong. Once you admit it, you can do something about it. Sell your property for whatever you can get (within reason) and move on before it gets 10x worse. Just don't wait too long.....

    The same kind of massive oversupply occurred in Berlin in the mid -90s and some of those off plan flats are empty today and 4 million people live in Berlin!

    My own personal tip is Romanian cities (Brasov,Iasi, Cluj and Bucahrest) and Istanbul environs - just don't for coastal.....
     
  16. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Hi, I'm not sure this is strictly true :

    "The only place to make money in Bulgaria is either Sofia or Varna. Pure and simple. Our company has 300 people out in Sofia. We are having to increase wages substantially with zero unemployment and more companies moving their call centres there such as HP. Property is up 30% this year in heart of the centre I am advised by our local staff"

    Sounds like a lot of advertising bull to me. There are many places you can make money beyond Sofia and Varna.... just choose the right property in the right location.

    "When you speak to them about Sunny Beach they say things like"ugh" , "it's like lego","been destroyed - awful over development", "rather go to Greece, which is just as near". They can't understand why people want to build apartments there when the season is 3 months - neither can I for that reason... Even if if an apartment is £20k it will have running costs such as service charge, insurance, maintenance etc. If your rental return is less than your running costs then your "rental business" has zero value and you may as well walk away from it and not pay the bills. Result: a graveyard of empty developments, impossible to sell and of no interest to tour operators."

    Not everyone says 'ugh' to Sunny Beach, it suits some people and who are we to say they are wrong??? Maybe you are not selling there and that is your gripe with this?


    "Get real folks : you got it wrong. Once you admit it, you can do something about it. Sell your property for whatever you can get (within reason) and move on before it gets 10x worse. Just don't wait too long.....

    The same kind of massive oversupply occurred in Berlin in the mid -90s and some of those off plan flats are empty today and 4 million people live in Berlin!"

    Goodness me, comparing Bulgaria with Berlin... this is madness, this is not the same country, nor the same property market!!! How dare you say people got it wrong, you don't even know why they invested.

    "My own personal tip is Romanian cities (Brasov,Iasi, Cluj and Bucahrest) and Istanbul environs - just don't for coastal....."

    Ahhhhhhh, you'd want to sell there then???????? :)
     
  17. bulbasaurus

    bulbasaurus New Member

    Jain

    Thank you for your response but sorry to disappoint you I am not an estate agent, I just feel sorry for people who are putting their life savings into some sunny beach apartment hoping it will pay for their pension based on some statement that "values were up 30% last year" and then find they have a highly illiquid asset with negligible or negative income ( pre financing).

    I've made millions from property - I bought in Latvia in 2002 when nobody overseas was buying then sold in 2006 when everybody else was buying. It's what's known as "not following the herd" and you get the biggest herds in property.

    I just hate the hype of Bulgaria - do people realise Sunny Beach is a ghost town in the winter, or does anybody tell them - of course not because you want to sell property and perpetuate the myth it will rival Spain. I could make sense of it if it was Albania because then at least you have Southern Spain weather conditions.

    Do agents tell buyers the ski queues are 2 hrs long at Bansko. No. But are they selling it as investment. Yes, by saying values are going up, they are 1/2 the price of Spain etc. Do investors have protection under the Financial Services Act of being misled. No! because selling property is not regarded as "investment business" as defined in the FSA. If it was covered by FSA then all this hype would disappear.

    Many people will lose everything in Bulgaria and all these UK agents with juicy 10%+ commission will be the architects of their downfall.

    I love your statment "How dare you say people got it wrong, you don't even know why they invested." Very revealing answer - you didn't say why they "bought" but why they invested. Sorry ! how many people invest to lose money -hmmmmmmmm.

    Regards

    Neil
     
  18. propertastic

    propertastic New Member

    Neil,

    You and I are definitely on the same page.

    I wrote a blog entry about exactly the same points you make, particularly with regards to Buglarian property:

    The Herd Mentality
     
  19. bulbasaurus

    bulbasaurus New Member

    Thanks Propertastic

    Liked your site ( because I agreed with it all!) and hope it takes off. You are obviously an individual with a high level of integrity giving a balanced perspective on things.

    If you come across any interesting land opportunties in Egypt let me know - I have HNW friends who may have interest.

    Equally , if you are ever in Gibraltar let me know and we can meet for a beer.

    Cheers

    Neil
     
  20. Jain and Chris

    Jain and Chris Senior Member

    Neil, hello !

    I think the article I saw on propertastis was quite old, when the newspapers here at the end of last year were purporting that Sofiua was the best place to buy... I haven't seen anything updated here for some months but maybe I'm wrong?

    Sorry, I didn't think you were an agent at all... just thought you had a reason to promo what you did. BTW, if you made millions from property, what on earth are you doing on here and not sitting back in the sunbeams with your cold GnT???

    Well, the hype of Bulgaria is no more than the English football team go through every time they have a new player or manager is it? Then, of course, whether right or wrong it always gets knocked down. Not everyone wants southern Spain-style climate, people are looking for different things.

    I'm not sure anyone tells that queues are long - or for that matter that beaches in October are still in full sign but gloriously empty - take your pick. One man's meat and all that....

    I do agree though that many agents in Bulgaria will become architects of their own downfall... they have no qualifications and the market will find them out; which is exactly why we started a campaign for ethics in the marketplace.

    "I love your statment "How dare you say people got it wrong, you don't even know why they invested." Very revealing answer - you didn't say why they "bought" but why they invested. Sorry ! how many people invest to lose money -hmmmmmmmm."
    Investment is buying, be it for future results or to live in - it's still an investment in the property.

    TTFN,
     
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