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EUR 60,000 to invest

Discussion in 'Buying Overseas Property' started by BrianC, May 23, 2008.

  1. BrianC

    BrianC New Member

    From an inheritance I have the above sum to invest.

    I am looking for an investment where I have a fair chance of doubling this in a 5-6 year period and am fully aware that this will come with an element of risk.

    I am not looking for a lifestyle property or somewhere to retire to and frankly I´d be very wary of any place that was promising 30%+ growth per year.

    Ideally I´d like to buy outright and have the property let and managed with minimal input from me.

    Suggestions?
     
  2. Riccal

    Riccal New Member

    As I said in the earlier post as an answer to Pilliam an element of risk is always going to exist when these levels of capital growth are mooted. However, you have taken that on board.

    Capital growth over 5-6 years of approximately 100% should not be an issue in a decent emerging market. However, dont forget that if there is no yield offsetting opportunity earnings on the cash it will erode your real term return quite substantially.

    Countries like Egypt certainly offer strong rental yields and even discounting claims of 10-15% returns, 7% pa will give 2-3% spreads over deposits. Now your annual capital growth is real world.

    60k euros will buy a 1 bed apartment close to or on the beach on the Red Sea or act as a deposit in more expensive locations in Europe.

    Cheers

    Rick
     
  3. HORIZON

    HORIZON New Member

    Hi Brian,

    As for Egypt if you buy a key ready property, you would appear in a train that already missed the potential of price increase I would say. On the other hand, if you wish for higher rental yields you would look at something within a complex with facilities and developed infrastructure. The price of such key ready properties would be also much bigger.

    If you have 5-6 years for your investment, consider buying something off-plan that is due to be completed in several years - you will already have your property value bigger before the completion. You will also not need to throw all your money at once but in installments. After completion let property management company rent it for you.

    Ideally you can buy a key ready property and property in an offplan project separating your budget - this will let you get rental yields from one directly and capital gain (which is not taxed in Egypt) plus rental yields from the other.
     
  4. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    In 2008 I suspect asking for the impossible!!

    All property investments have to be managed.....using your 60,000 € as a deposit on a Polaris World 2 bed maisonette at Condado de Alhama cost 119.800 € ...get a mortgage for the balance
    Ready in 2 year....circa 2010
    Let it yourself...golfers in winter and family in summer....to make a good return you need to work at it...or use the PW agency
    Safe as it is in a modern economy and it is a ' legal' property so money not at risk

    Even enjoy the odd week yourself

    As good a chance as any other location of getting a very good capital appreciation in say 10 years.....circa 2018....8 years after you buy

    Nothing is certain in property or life........but for your money this is perhaps as good if not better than anything else
    We are in a credit crunch....so safe bets are the best.....long term Spain has the life style which is easily reached by most of northern EU and Russia etc .....so when property markets world wide start moving again....say circa 2010....Spain will move with them

    I back my views with buying in Spain....but do not expect profits until 2010

    If anyone tells you that they will guarantee a rental...it is built in to the price!
    No one can guarantee capital growth!
    Condo's are not proved as an investment outside USA
    Part shares are just...big timeshare....resale market not proved in EU

    if you buy in the best locations for ' life style buyers' then you are buying in a location where there will be ' a demand' when the time comes for you to sell!!!
     
  5. mickthepropertyguru

    mickthepropertyguru New Member

    I have to say i think a golf property wouldn't be the way to go. There are so many in the Costa s especially if it isn't a life style purchase. And the maintenance, management and community fees would eat into the profit.

    I think you would be better off in Berlin with a good steady rental guarantee.
    I myself would go for Tirane (Albania) , Moldova(Land) or Egypt but if i was going to invest here i would invest in a resort that would be the best around, best views best facilities, a luxury hotel. One that will definitely get the rentals as oversupply is inevitable at some stage and it may be hard to sell like every sunshine destination at some stage.
    Taking your time is the key to investing. I know a great deal about investing. I have worked in the industry and i have a few investments but i'm still learning more and more every day.
    Do yourself a favor and stay away from big glossy brochures.
     
  6. David howe

    David howe New Member

    Mick, the problem with Germany and what people are not identifying is you must keep the property 10 years other wise you will have a minimum of 27% Capital Gains tax or a possible 42% which will greatly erode any capital gain of which is alredy limited and geared more towards rental return

    Totally agree with you in relation to life style properties such as Golf Courses. In the early days some made money on dream over seas properties, but those days are gone and investors should focus on pure economics witha good located property that will rent on yearly contracts so they will at least have sanctuary of receipt.


    David Howe

    Investment Romania - Property Romania, Invest Romania, Investment Romania



     
  7. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Welcome BrianC.

    The brief you gave leads me to think you may be better being part of a syndicate than buying a far away property that you will have difficulty managing if your team on the ground let you down (property manager, leasing agent, etc.)

    Here’s a quick note on 3 alternatives to buying bricks and mortar that may suit your needs.

    1) Some developers provide savings accounts with British Building Societies. These accounts offer in the region of 17% to 20% pa (net.) Your money is tied in for a period (normally 2, 3 or 4 years.) During that period your money doesn’t leave the account, but you will see the developer adding interest every month. Normally the account will be in the developers’ name, but they won’t be able to take the money out. (Condition of account is that money can only be returned to those putting money in – though this is clearly something you would want checked by your solicitor if going down this route.)

    2) Some developers offer a ‘guaranteed’ return if you are prepared to lend them money for a year or more. Perhaps the most well known example of this is Midas PLC. They have a 12 month offering of 25% and land for one of their developments is used as security for your stake. This is a little bit riskier than (1) above, but provides a hands free means for you to reap a 25% return each year.

    3) Closed ended property funds / syndicates. Until recently this was the preserve of the rich and it would have been tricky to be part of with 60k Euros. That’s changed. These funds/syndicates are set up for like minded individuals to club together and act together. The basic principal is that you are providing the financial backing to property experts. They use this money to acquire land/projects where they can add value through planning permissions, build process, etc. These types of investment typically look to provide returns from around 20% to 50% pa, though some have delivered much more.

    You’ll have noticed that some of the posters have vested interests (working for agencies or perhaps surveyors working in particular markets.) I too fall into that category. I act as an introducer for friends (real and cyber) looking to make the same investment I made with Oxford Management – a company that provides funds focussed on Easter Europe.
     
  8. Investy

    Investy Senior Member

    Soup, can you give any names of companies offering the high rate savings accounts as in your first option above?

    Many thanks
     
  9. rabarbaro

    rabarbaro New Member

    I can only tell you to buy something already "build", not offplan....
    And plan a week at least on site to check the area, the location and so on.
    Often 200 mts here or there make the difference !
    I had an awful experencie with bulgaria, not yet finished....
    If you want suggestions regarding Italy I can give you more, as I'm italian.
    take care
    Daniela
     
  10. The Soup Dragon

    The Soup Dragon Senior Member

    Hi Investy. Last time I looked Churchill Overseas were offering circa 50% net over 3 years with the Yorkshire BS.

    I think I've come accross another in the past through TheMoveChannel, though didn't look into it.

    Know Goldberg Global have some guaranteed return offerings, but I don't know if your money would sit in a bank account as described in (1) further up or would be more like description in (2.)
     
  11. Chris in Spain

    Chris in Spain New Member

    You should consider carefully the location of your investment. Easy and economical access to your property is a consideration, even if you have engaged property managers. I am resident in Spain and active in the construction and property industries. At the moment the Costa del Sol is throwing up some superb investment opportuities, although you would need to borrow to acquire. Our organisation is acting for several distressed sales e.g. Fuengirola 2bed/2bath luxury penthouses, fully furnished e150,000 requiring only e10,000 deposit. In Almeria the same, at e200,000 with up to 100% mortgages available. All these come with a 3/5 year letting agreement with owner use for 30/60 days a year. Inland Andalucia does have properties for outright purchase for the sum you have mentioned, although most would require some sort of update/reform. Hope this helps Chris.
     
  12. rowlandsbb

    rowlandsbb New Member

    A lot of offers about but all marketing offers are reflected in the price.....100% mortgages in a world of a credit crunch does raise a few questions!!!!.....guaranteed rentals the same....just look what is happening to inner city flats with same in UK!!

    At times lilke this better to play safe and look for good location

    with £60,000 to play with in Spain you will not get very much which is good quality....better to say get a 50% mortgage and there are still some good terms available

    Buying and having rental managed for you and giving you a good return is , in general, not available, whatever some agents may say!
    If you are buying for a bit of life style use and want a medium to long term return ] [part capital growth and some rental] then Spain is as good as anywhere but only in the good locations[ for best lets close to golf, beach bars etc]

    But you have to handle the rentals yourself.....bit of work but can be done

    A realistic approach !!
     
  13. bloss

    bloss New Member

    hi

    do u have an email where i can send you details about this concern of yours? i may be of help

    thanks in advance & hope to hear from you soon
     
  14. willy01

    willy01 New Member

    Would this be in Disney land? can you send me the link!
     
  15. bloss

    bloss New Member



    hi investy :)

    i know a company that offers this. send me your email address so i can be of help. thanks
     
  16. DC

    DC New Member

    Good things

    Hi we have some good things, please be in touch if you wish to go through them. Kindest regards D
     
  17. VERGIS92

    VERGIS92 New Member



    Dear Brian

    I work in sales in Greece/Crete here the market offers around 9% annual growth
    on average, yet there' s misleading commercials about 20 or 30% like you said,
    but thats short lived or unrealistic, the fact is 9% , long holiday season,
    winter rental is possible too, and if you are smart enough to get the right mortgage (euros or swiss frank based) you can invest 60K with a certified , serious constructor that will also manage renting your property,

    I'm not sure if you can double your capital in 7 years, it depends on your
    accountant skills and the whole tax planning process, but if you plan it right
    it maybe possible, reducing tax liability, getting cheapest mortgage etc.

    in case you want to enquire about Crete please feel free to email me
    info@varan-services.net I'm a salesman but I 'm impartial in my advice
    and I can tell you the pros and cons of this country
     
  18. Magellan

    Magellan New Member

    You can find OK farms in a close to habitable condition in Central Portugal for that amount - just a thought
     
  19. VERGIS92

    VERGIS92 New Member

    From what you are saying you sound like a conservative investor who wants
    to put in the minimum amount in a 'hands off' automated investment.....


    Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, If I were you I'd pick any country
    based on tax regime and finance facilities, that's my first critirion.

    Then go to that country search for a hotspot area and choose/build a property
    preferable go for an off plan house, that's immediately a huge 20% or more
    below market value!

    You have to borrow from the bank it's the only way to get big funds, and achieve
    leverage in your investment and make serious money,
    No finance means no leverage!


    The objective in investing is to make money on others peoples money,
    it's usually the shareholders money or the banks loans, are we smarter
    than those investors and can beat their methods? I don't hink so!
     
  20. VERGIS92

    VERGIS92 New Member

    I think your best bet is off plan property,

    you can invest in the UK, do you live close?


    check out serliana.com
     
  21. MyDamac

    MyDamac Banned

    BrianC,

    Have you thought of investing in the booming market of Dubai as an option?

    If you are thinking of long term investment then i would highly recommend DAMAC- The largest private developer in the middle east- which has a special offer going on in which they are offering either 10% discount on all their properties or a 24% rental gurantee over 3 years.

    If you are interested then send me an email at info@mydamacproperty.com or send me a private msg with your email and i will send you the complete details.

    Thanks and best of luck!
     
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