Egypt's Future as a Holiday/Residential Destination?

wemyss1960

wemyss1960

New Member
Egypt's unrest blights 2011 tourism revenue


Egypt's vital tourism industry, crippled by political turmoil, will suffer a 25 percent drop in revenue in 2011 and will need until September to get back on track, the tourism minister said in an interview on Thursday.


An 18-day popular uprising that forced out President Hosni Mubarak saw much of Egypt's economy grind to a halt and slashed tourism revenue for February by more than half.

March figures fell by 60 percent from last year, Mounir Fakhry Abdel Nour said.

With its pharaonic antiquities and year-round warm beaches, Egypt relies on tourism as its top foreign currency earner, source of over a tenth of gross domestic product. It provides one in eight jobs in a country beset by high unemployment.

"Our revenues of 2010 were $12.5 billion, we should be 25 percent below that in 2011," Abdel Nour told Reuters, but said it could be pushed even lower.

"Egypt is in transition, at the end of the day, and any transition path could be bumpy," he said.

The turmoil that scared tourists away and prompted overseas warnings against visiting Egypt has abated. Tourists are dribbling back and most of the warnings have been lifted.

But hotel occupancy rates in the key Red Sea resorts of Hurghada and Sharm el-Sheikh, remain below 40 percent, Abdel Nour said.

"Until today, we have not recouped the normal pace of tourism in Egypt. That was expected and it is understandable. But we expect to be back on track by September."

Egypt is launching a global advertising campaign, pressing for the lifting of remaining travel bans and offering incentives to cut charter flight fees, the minister said.

STABILITY

The tourism ministry is working with young Egyptians who have launched an "Egypt is Safe" campaign, and is counting on bringing visitors to Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicentre of protests, as an attraction.

"Tahrir square has become a target for tourists to visit, it has become a popular destination," Abdel Nour said, adding that social media were also being used to bring back tourists.

Google Inc, whose executive Wael Ghonim played a key role in Egypt's uprising, wanted to coordinate a marketing campaign with Egyptian tourism authorities and would help with selling airline tickets online, he said.

Egypt has coped with a number of tourism scares in recent years. In 1997, gunmen killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians at an ancient temple near the southern town of Luxor, severely damaging tourism.

From 2004 to 2006, there were a series of deadly bomb attacks at Red Sea resorts in the Sinai, but tourist bookings swiftly recovered.

Recovering from the political turmoil this time will be much more challenging and take more time, Abdel Nour said.

"The name of the game is peace and stability and until the tourist is convinced that security is restored to the country, we will not be able to recoup what we have lost," he said.

"We are doing whatever we can to inform the world that security is prevailing, that hotels and Egyptians are waiting to receive tourists," Abdel Nour said. "And with this effort, I expect the last quarter of the year to be excellent."
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Thanks Stuart! This is a very well written and accurate assessment of the situation here and the anticipated time for recovery. All the signs are here that the recovery time indicated will be achieved and most people believe that the future will be very bright indeed.

The unknown elements are whether fundamentalists may try to infiltrate the forthcoming elections; however, most informed Egyptians are very aware of the possibilities and it is up to the people to come forward with the right candidates, with the necessary balance of education and experience, to direct the country to regain a strong and influential position in Middle Eastern politics.

Priority must be given to creating the environment for a transparent and fair government that will ensure the correct allocation of funds to run the country and to give confidence to attract inward investment.

For the system to work effectively the country should be run on non secular lines with equal opportunity being offered to Muslims and Christians alike, based purely on merit.
 
wemyss1960

wemyss1960

New Member
Tuesday, April 12, 2011

Egypt's New Urban Communities Authority (NUCA) is cancelling a land contract with beleaguered property developer Palm Hills , financial daily Al Mal reported on Thursday.

'NUCA decided ... to cancel a contract for an allocated plot of land of 190 feddans ... in Sixth of October City to Palm Hills,' Al Mal said, citing no sources.

It did not say whether the cancellation concerned land whose ownership is being contested under legal challenges that have hit several companies in Egypt's real estate sector. No one from NUCA could immediately be reached for comment.

In March, a judicial panel concluded that a sale of land in another Cairo suburb to Palm Hills was illegal because it was priced too cheaply and said it should be scrapped.
 
P

Papadadio

New Member
Buying in Nabq, Sharm El Sheikh

I will just add my little bit to this thread in case anyone is interested.
I with my partner go to Sharm El Sheik probably about 4 times a year as we are scuba divers.
Over the time we have met and are good friends with a lot of the Egyptian people who are also involved in the diving.
In Feb 2010 we decided to bite the bullet and save ourselves a packet on hotel costs by putting a deposit on a 2 bed apartment at The View Resort Nabq. We bought off plan and when we first went to have a look at it, the first phase was in progress but ours was just a pile of sand.
We put the deposit on with a well known English Property Management company and the build and payments were to be made over 18 months.
The apartment is being built in a hotel complex which is exactly what I wanted. That way, they maintain the grounds, pool and buildings and my view was that they weren't going to let it get run down.
I had heard from friends that already have an apartment there in a complex that the pool was left to go green etc as no one took responsibility.
Anyway in Feb 10 I put the deposit down and then made payments every 4 months. Yes it did concern me as I had never done anything like this before but the selling company (on behalf of the developer) were more than good and assured me all the way.
We are going out in Sept and will be taking over the apartment although the rest of the complex and hotel have yet to be built.
There are a lot of other facts I could add to this but I leave you with a taster and if you want me to add more just ask.
It has been a fascinating journey and one that I am glad we took.
I suppose we entered it with a bit of a 'were angels fear to tread' attitude but to date there have been to mishaps.
Pete
 
P

Papadadio

New Member
Egyptian People in Sharm El Sheikh

My partner and I went diving in Sharm in January before the revolution.
We returned at the end of March after the revolution.
The change in Sharm El Sheikh between those dates = nothing except all the Egyptians are happy.
They are a lovely people and it makes me so happy to see them being free and not oppressed.
They were a great set of people before and remain so after.
I think they will take some time to understand what a democracy really is. At first glance a few thinks it means they can do what they want eg. not wearing a seat belt or going faster on the roads than they should. Nothing major and I know they will come to understand.
The revolution never kept me away from Sharm and to be honest, Sharm El Sheikh was kept away from the troubles and just trundled along as it always has.
I'll add more at a later date.
Pete
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Thanks Pete!

We need a few more completely unbiased comments like your own to convince people that Egypt was a great place to come before the revolution and an even greater place now. Hurghada is the same, apart from what we saw on the tele you wouldn't have known there was a revolution!

However, as you say, the difference is now evident. People care about their city, it is cleaner, more vibrant and the people are just so much happier!!
 
S

shilly

New Member
Thanks Pete!

We need a few more completely unbiased comments like your own to convince people that Egypt was a great place to come before the revolution and an even greater place now. Hurghada is the same, apart from what we saw on the tele you wouldn't have known there was a revolution!

However, as you say, the difference is now evident. People care about their city, it is cleaner, more vibrant and the people are just so much happier!!
Hi,
Regarding your post ,here is my input on this topic.I absolutly adore my flat,its location,Hurghada and most of all its people.I went before the revolution and I am due to go back within the next couple of months.
What I do not like is being ripped off.If the developer did not think that all we are there for is to line their pockets it would be my paradise.As soon as they can bits are added on here there and everywhere.we all know in this day and age everything has a price but not to the extent that as soon as they can the bills increase (service etc decreases).
If only the developers cleaned up their act what a better place it would be.This is what puts people off word of mouth due to negativity.Its not the revolution which has done the damage but the developers and their hangers on.:dontknow:
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Well said Shilly, but don't leave it there, we all agree with you! Why not 'name and shame' the Developer concerned?

Elsewhere in Europe, when you buy a property, the owners of apartments form an owners committee and have a voice in the ongoing management of their project and the level of services to be provided. If the management company do not perform, you vote them out at the next AGM.

Unfortunately, there are still Developers in Egypt who see their project as a 'cash cow' that can be milked every year to provide an ongoing income stream. Its time this practice stopped and the owners took control.

If you are reading this Zeiad your professional opinion would be much appreciated.
 
A

Alan Cockayne

Banned
Spain tops the chart as Europe’s best value destination this year according to the new Holiday Costs Barometer of 14 European and mid-haul destinations by Post Office Travel Money. Key findings include:

• Prices in Spain are pegged at 2010 levels and at a four year low
• Runner up Bulgaria has pushed last year’s top destination, Portugal, into third place
• Resort prices have dropped by at least 10 per cent in Greece and Turkey
• Dubai cheaper than Egypt for mid haul holidays


Shilly is correct. The revolution and the greedy Egyptian mindset will put many tourist off this year. Those who have been tell others of the hassle. That's not going to change overnight.

Regarding developers, their motives and attitudes to money-grabbing will not change at all. Now they have spent all their money they won't drop prices but stupidly raise them.

What mentality is that? No wonder Egyptian resorts are well below the rest in the visitors lists. Shame on them, as you all know, I've been a seasoned campainer for diver-tourists for many years and see how it's been spoiled by averice and greed.

Maybe they will learn from this?


Alan.
 
Last edited:
P

Papadadio

New Member
Buying in Nabq, Sharm El Sheikh
As I am new to these forums, can I name the property company I brought the apartment off and can I name the developers both of which have availed me of excellent service?

I am aware that the developers can put management costs up each yewar but it is on a par with council tax in the UK. If they put our council tax up here, we moan and groan, complain but still end up paying what the demand is. I take it the same principles apply in Egypt except that the complaining over there probably doesn't hold so much weight.

My apartment is 90 m2 and at the outset (1st year),the demand has been 65 Egp per suare meter = 5850 Egp which at 9.4 to the £ = £622.
It is on a hotel complex that maintains the pools etc, clears rubbish, 24 hr security, wifi, use of the hotel fascilities and satelite TV.
I am aware that the hotel and other things are still being built but is that a bad price?
I am also aware that next years figure may be completely different.

I am interested in what others have to say but I will also remain positive.
I am 52 years old and this apartment was brought for personal use only and is being furnished according to a second home as such. Yes we will rent it to friends and family but where possible not on a general renting option. Obviously things may change and we have to but until then, it is our domain.
As we are both retired, we want the option of saying 'goodbye England we are off to the sun for a month'. That is the theory and I will keep you updated on the practice.

Peter, is there anyway my replies or topics can be kept together as over time they may become a rolling story for others to follow?
Thanks

Pete
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Hi Pete

The price you are paying for management fees is not unreasonable; the problem is that in the contracts some Developers give themselves the option to increase this by up to 10% a year. And guess what? The fees always seem to increase by the maximum!!

Management fees should reflect the actual costs and increase by no more than the rate of inflation.......
 
A

Alan Cockayne

Banned
Hi there Pete.

Welcome to the forum pages and well done for securing your purchase in Nabq Bay.
Your contributions will be exceptionally valued as it's on a Hotel Resort complex with loads of potential services for your money. Smaller residential projects are charging more than your fees for less services and incomplete facilities having doubled them each year, so you can understand why people are cautious.

Can you tell everyone how you came to that decision to buy in a Resort? Was it from help from these forums, or word and mouth, or was it from expert advice? Did you visit regularly to be sure, or took a stab at an exhibition or web-site?

I notice the size is 90m2 which is a great unit. Did price win over location?
Did you do all your research before spending any cash?
All this will help the readers in the long-term before they too take the plunge.


All the very best for the future.


Alan.
 
Last edited:
S

shilly

New Member
:turtle:
Hi Pete

The price you are paying for management fees is not unreasonable; the problem is that in the contracts some Developers give themselves the option to increase this by up to 10% a year. And guess what? The fees always seem to increase by the maximum!!

Management fees should reflect the actual costs and increase by no more than the rate of inflation.......
Ah but what do they class as the rate of inflation? Owners have received their yearly maintenance and the price of ALL SERVICES are rather over flated by no stretch of the imagination .Not only that but the service has gone down too and we are expected to pay year in and year out.If we were paying a days wage for a days graft then fair enough but that does not happen.When accounts are received then please check them and challenge them do not become another silent owner who thinks that the money you pay is peanuts to you but its a great fortune to those who look forward to their yearly lottery win:turtle:
 
S

shilly

New Member
Well said Shilly, but don't leave it there, we all agree with you! Why not 'name and shame' the Developer concerned?

Elsewhere in Europe, when you buy a property, the owners of apartments form an owners committee and have a voice in the ongoing management of their project and the level of services to be provided. If the management company do not perform, you vote them out at the next AGM.

Unfortunately, there are still Developers in Egypt who see their project as a 'cash cow' that can be milked every year to provide an ongoing income stream. Its time this practice stopped and the owners took control.

If you are reading this Zeiad your professional opinion would be much appreciated.
Well Peter we all know who these are.But before I name and shame lets start at the bottom of the pile.

From the little man in the street handing out flyers,to the estate agents and the agents who tempt you with lots of spiel and put you off the property you like and direct you to one where the agent will make more commision from the developers.To the legal teams who "work " for them and when you have a problem suddenly disappear from the face of the earth.

Have you tried to contact all owners on a complex?because you are told "due to data protection that information is not available" so how can a HO be established..

The maintenance is due and the accounts read as though Mickey and his wife have created these-you complain and then you are threatened with court,loss of electric and water-utilities they do not even provide!!

So where does one go from here? Try asking John and Karen East from RedSea Properties who "sold" the flats to us Brits and then ignores the emails when we need help.Try ASKING Iraida Estate Agents to justify their actions and accounts and all you get is a brick wall,unanswered emails and smiling faces when you go to try to get satisfaction

So now the question remains

To all those who were part of this never ending circle of stress,emails, anger and frustration I hope it was worth it taking YOUR cut and then trying to wriggle out of it,the best you can do now is give us owners your FREE time and help clean up this sorry business and help put our faith back into the human race.To have happy owners is worth more in advertising than putting up a hoarding down the middle of the road:argh:
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Well said Shilly; you are absolutely right, and it is unlikely to change until owners like you stand up for your rights.
 
P

Papadadio

New Member
Hi there Pete.

Welcome to the forum pages and well done for securing your purchase in Nabq Bay.
Your contributions will be exceptionally valued as it's on a Hotel Resort complex with loads of potential services for your money. Smaller residential projects are charging more than your fees for less services and incomplete facilities having doubled them each year, so you can understand why people are cautious.

Can you tell everyone how you came to that decision to buy in a Resort? Was it from help from these forums, or word and mouth, or was it from expert advice? Did you visit regularly to be sure, or took a stab at an exhibition or web-site?

I notice the size is 90m2 which is a great unit. Did price win over location?
Did you do all your research before spending any cash?
All this will help the readers in the long-term before they too take the plunge.


All the very best for the future.


Alan.
Well in reply to your post, the story goes as follows:

On our last day diving in Feb 2010 we got chatting to a lady who had bought, sold and then bought another property through Pioneer Property who had a shop in Naama.
We went to Naama that night to get a meal prior to our flight home the next day.
Although we had no intention of purchasing a property (never crossed our minds) we went to the Pioneer shop out of curiosity. We were told Nabq was an up and coming area and when we went in that's the area we asked about.
We were told there were 2 off plan developments (Viva Reef & The View) which we should look at Sat morning and they would take us. Still with no intention we said ok but we had a plane to catch at 1.
Sat morning came and they picked us up and took us to Viva Reef 1st which for some reason didn't do anything for us.
Next was The View where we were taken to a building and an apartment that overlooked the sea and Tiran Island. It was a stunning view and I jokingly said, ok if we can have one like this. He pointed to a pile of sand next to where we were and said that is the next build and there should be one available.
We were then taken to the office at Viva Mall where we were shown a brochure of the complex and how it would look. I was told that I could have the one I wanted but by this time I was thirsty and more concerned with catching the flight.
My partner and I went downstairs for a coffee and we both asked each other 'what do you think'?
We chatted about the amount it would save us in hotel bills, how we could leave stuff here and just come out with hand luggage and so on. We were convincing ourselves.
We went upstairs, put the deposit on, picked up some brochures and headed back to the hotel then the airport and then home.
The phrase 'what have we done' kept coming to mind.
The build was not going to be ready until Feb 2012 and the payment structure was over 18 months.
That was the start of it and because we go out 4 or 5 times a year, we were able to visit and see the progress which has been encouraging. On each occasion we were driven there and back by Pioneer Property staff.
That is the brief history of our purchase.

In answer to your latter questions:
We are very pleased with the size of the property. Viva Reef 2 bed is slightly bigger at 95 m2 and incorporates 2 bathrooms and a recessed kitchen area but that in turn makes the bedrooms slightly smaller and the balcony appears smaller.
Did price win over location? They both won hands down.
Did I do the research? Well if you call speaking to a fellow diver on the boat research then yes I did but I doubt you will agree with that.
I have seen adverse comments about Pioneer Property on here in a few places but at this stage I cannot praise them enough. Whilst in the UK they have always answered my queries and given sought after advice. Whilst in Egypt they have always been hospitable, run us here and there and always been on hand to answer questions.
During our last few visits we have made contact with Ahmed Ali the site manager at the View acting on behalf of the developer, Kafafy. At our first meeting with him and thereon he has been a person that any buyer would want to deal with. He has been flexible to our requests and has never asked for more money. We were lucky enough to chose the tiles and paint for the walls which was a great bonus and made it feel more like our own.
I couldn't have asked for any more.
So it concludes unless things change that I cannot speak more highly of Pioneer Property or Ahmed Ali and would recommend them to others without hesitation.

So really I was not your model buyer as I failed to do all the things I should have done.

We are going to Egypt for 5 weeks in September to do the snagging, get our furniture fitted then sit on OUR balcony smiling. We forgot Ramadan so unfortunately will have to spend the first week or so diving.
We may also go in June and then I can update you on the progress.

Pete
I will also update you some time about the furniture we chose
 
S

shilly

New Member
Well said Shilly; you are absolutely right, and it is unlikely to change until owners like you stand up for your rights.
Yes I agree but not all owners want the hassle of getting involved and to be honest we did not sign up for this.We just want our little piece of paradise that we have worked damn hard for.Its so easy to rip people off and have no thought about those you are hurting.

It needs some kind of reform where not only are developers are scrutinised and investigated but it also needs to go down the chain.Owners should have some kind of support especially when buying aboard.We need backing from those agents,estate agents and developers who do not want to "get rich quick"but want to invest in customer service skills.

We come on these forums asking questions albeit after we have bought but if the buying process was more rigid then there would not be as many horror stories.Even if you contact a lawyer you do not know if they too are working with the ones you have the problem with so your good hard earned money is again washed down the plug hole.The whole system needs to be sorted out and EVERYONE puts their cards on the table so we know where to go to complain.Lawyers are again quick to set out their prices and then so far down the line the communication stops and then you have to involve another one and the whole process has to start again.
I think that those in the know should start to do something positive and help from day one not offer advice after the event.How do you think that makes owners feel? CLEAN UP the whole process and make peoples lives easy!!!!
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Thanks for giving us the details Shilly; believe me there are many people on here who will agree with your comments and equally there are agents like ourselves who will say 'you should have come to us'. But we are not perfect because the system is not perfect; we just take whatever precautions that we can to protect our clients.

We will continue to push for more regulation and in the meantime hope that our efforts will not go unnoticed by those who read the forum.

Don't be put off by less than satisfactory answers to your questions; a good agent or a good lawyer will be delighted to give the answers.
 
Peter Mitry

Peter Mitry

<B>Egypt Forum Founder Member</B>
Thanks for sharing this with us Pete; as agents we all attract a certain amount of criticism, some justified, some not and it refreshing to hear of a purchase which has gone to plan. Many do, but we don't hear enough of those.
 
P

Papadadio

New Member
A will

Could someone clarify a point for me please?

I believe that an English will has no jurisdiction in Egypt. I wish to leave my apartment to my partner who in turn on her death will leave it to my children.
I believe we have to arrange property contracts similar to that when I bought the apt.
In that case do I have to contract it to her and she at the same time contracts it to my children?

Pete
 
Top