Dubai Bubble Bursts

[PropGuy]

Dubai needs to sort out Dubai residency visa on property issue, that is an important one. I know many people who bought property for residency visa, but now they say whats the point in keeping that property. At least issue visa for properties that were advertised with residency visa.

Somebody needs to bring this point in news papers. Lot of doom and gloom stories in news papers but not seen this point brought up.

 

[monsi]

Dubai needs to sort out Dubai residency visa on property issue, that is an important one. I know many people who bought property for residency visa, but now they say whats the point in keeping that property. At least issue visa for properties that were advertised with residency visa.

Somebody needs to bring this point in news papers. Lot of doom and gloom stories in news papers but not seen this point brought up.

Isn't the UAE media state controlled?

If not, does anybody know any journalists - kicking up a stink in world media may help cause a rethink, especially as the Dubai powers are probably in reactive mode at the moment.

 

[Fran]

Guys,
why don't you just do your jobs as best as you can and stop winning and bubble bursting?
It's sickening to read all this winning, complaining and finger pointing.
Move on!
The global economy is in recession and one of the best places you can be right now is Dubai.

 

[PropGuy]

Isn't the UAE media state controlled?

If not, does anybody know any journalists - kicking up a stink in world media may help cause a rethink, especially as the Dubai powers are probably in reactive mode at the moment.

If media is controlled then it doesn't make sense, since much worse news about Dubai property market is getting printed. At least, visa issue is fixable and can give boost to Dubai property market even in this current financial crises.

 

[monsi]

Guys,
why don't you just do your jobs as best as you can and stop winning and bubble bursting?
It's sickening to read all this winning, complaining and finger pointing.
Move on!
The global economy is in recession and one of the best places you can be right now is Dubai.

I don't disagree with your point at all - but if the residency visa issue was addressed Dubai would probably find it was at an even greater advantage to other countries.

 

[georgihh]

Guys,
why don't you just do your jobs as best as you can and stop winning and bubble bursting?
It's sickening to read all this winning, complaining and finger pointing.
Move on!
The global economy is in recession and one of the best places you can be right now is Dubai.

You have to tell this to the people lost millions, to the newspaper journalists and to the developers to the job as good as they can
Now everybody is losing money and don’t expect them to say how wonderful is to sink the cash in Dubai.
Dubai is the best place if you have money but if you haven’t got is the worst place

 

[Wannaberich]

I really don't see why I am still seeing posts here about Dubai's return to the glory days of ever increasing house prices. Dubai & the UAE have cut 99.9 percent of the prospective customers out of the property buying chain by not allowing permanent residency.

I know of many UK retirees, who could have a good life drawing their pensions with 0% tax in Dubai, enjoying the sun and sand, however, it's not allowed to retire here, so lets just forget those customers.

There are many mobile workers, who have lived the life moving to 'where the work is', Dubai could be ideal for them with it's 0% tax, but low and behold, you will not be a resident even if you buy!

UK, the USA, Singapore, Hong Kong all have residents in school or college now, who will marry, raise a family and need a place to live in, right? What does Dubai and the UAE have? Rotating migrant workers who are on 1 (get that) 1 month notice to leave this place.

Understand that if you are resident in the UK, USA you will never be forced to leave, you can and will be under pressure, but in the end you can stay until you find a way out of your current problems.

Dubai has what? Migrant workers on very low salaries, who can never afford the rents, much less to buy the available property, these are the people who are on 1 month notice and expected to do the following:

Clear their DEWA bills.
Clear their Etisalat or Du bills,
I'm not sure about this yet, but to clear the communal building maintenance bills.
Get 'No objection letters' for all the above.
Find a new school for your children in the country of residence.
Find transportation for your furniture , rented or permanent housing (for your family) in your country of residence.
Put your mortgaged property up for sale.
Find a buyer, proceed the sell agreement.
Get the transfer registered with the 'Land department'
Get !No Objection letter! from the bank for property sale
Pay all your fines / registration to Sell your car,
Pay you car loans, rent loans etc with the bank.
Clear your credit cards & loans
Get 'No objection letter' from the all the above.
In this time you can be on a watch list in the airports, not to leave the country and any one of the creditors above can instigate this.

Possible jail time for any one of the above presenting a bounced cheque.

All of this (and more) when you have 'NO JOB' & 1 month to action in full before you start paying AED.100 per day in overstay fees.

Are you people so stupid to think that anyone what half a brain is going to sign up for this ****? you already have only 0.1% of the world (I say the full world) population who will buy into it, then take a good look at what they (the rest) are going buying into!

Truly stupid people!!!! - Go and ask your financial adviser about this, folly?

You are asking the people to buy into a 'Pipe dream', that they already knew was a pipe dream. and has zero grounding in reality.

I say once again and for the last time, If these stupid residency laws are not changed, UK, US and the rest WILL recover after the storm, Dubai WILL NOT!

You really can't expect that people will fall for this 'PYRAMID SCHEME' again & again, you people as developers or speculators can believe as much as you like - keep selling to each other at ever increasing prices, one day you will understand 'it is all just sand'.

The rest of us will leave you to your sand, and just hope you enjoy the taste after, I just don't think it'll be good food for you families,but hell, keep pumping the money in, keep paying the developers to 'Market' properties that can never, ever see one day of this countries wonderful sunshine.

Last post from here -

DG

One word - Tripe.

 

[monsi]

Dubai is the best place if you have money but if you haven’t got is the worst place

Good grief! Is there a country that is the 'best' if you have no money?

Much of the 'panic' is based on perceived loss of opportunity. Many of these opportunities didn't exist in other parts of the world any way.

I am not suggesting people haven't made losses. Money has been lost all over the world, sometimes when 'safely' held in banks.

Very suspiciously, I have noticed some of the posters of the most offending 'the end is nigh' posts also advertising for distress sales. Interesting technique - spread rumour and panic and then see if you can get some desperate sellers to part with their properties.

 

[Ayyan]

The residence issue del boy i think you stated that you have been here 15 years did any one ask you to leave ??

The metro station , the new highways , the new intersections etc etc so they are building all these for the 200k locals they have here ??

hmm ????

 

[Fran]

You have to tell this to the people lost millions, to the newspaper journalists and to the developers to the job as good as they can
Now everybody is losing money and don’t expect them to say how wonderful is to sink the cash in Dubai.
Dubai is the best place if you have money but if you haven’t got is the worst place

All of us lost more or less, but this is the course of nature - ups & downs.

"It’s easy to grin when your ships come in and you’ve got the market beat, but the man worth while is the man who can smile when his pants are too tight in the seat."

 

[Wannaberich]

To all the doom and gllom merchants out there,what you have to remember is that what happens in Dubai in the next 12 months is irrelevant.
However many jobs are lost,however many projects are delayed/cancelled,if all properties drop 50% in value,all this is irrelevant.
When the worlds economies pick up,when there is money swimming around everywhere,
Dubais property prices will rise again,delayed/cancelled projects will be re-started,jobs will be re-created.
Unless you can give me a good reason why this won't happen then please say.
Otherwise,dont bore with me with the problems of today which will be gone tommorow.

 

[DelboyG]

Busted!! - Ayyan

The residence issue del boy i think you stated that you have been here 15 years did any one ask you to leave ??

The metro station , the new highways , the new intersections etc etc so they are building all these for the 200k locals they have here ??

hmm ????

Ayyan,

I'm one off the smart ones, my residency is tied to my company, not my job - so long as I have a working company they (no-one) can throw me out! (I say no-one - but there is always the Sheiks office).

I'm telling you I live here and know the game, I'm sponsoring a friend of mine who was 'Borne here' lived here all his life here and has never, ever know his so called home country! When he lost his job he was on 1 month notice to go 'WHERE?', **** 30+ years in Dubai - perfect Arabic & English speaking, owning a villa, a Nisan Petrol, a Land cruiser, a Dodge, a speed boat and quad bikes. etc. A real smart guy and a talented asset to Dubai.

He lost his job and was told to 'Go Home', now please, go and ask your financial adviser if this is a position you should put yourself in? See what he tells you, you already know the answer, so it'll be a good judge of your adviser.

They are building the metro etc, not only for the locals, agreed, they are expecting population growth, agreed.

But hell, it has to be in the resident (i.e. buyers) long term interest to make this happen. S**t, I'm not going to sign up for a 10 or 20 year mortgage if I'm on 30 days notice to leave. I'm not going to sign up for this, if at age 60 I have to leave, leave to where? That is telling people like my friend above, make as much as you can now and get the f**k out of here after, where you're going, we don't care!.

These are the realities my friend, everything else is just BS advertising, if you ignore the people who are looking at 10, 20 or lifetime years. Keep focusing on the people who are on 2-3 years work contracts, look at what they buy and you WILL understand why all the lights are out in 'Dubai Marina' or Palm island.

Anyway - as I said at the start of this - I don't want to be a gloom & doom merchant, I have an honest business here so it's not in MY interest to 'bring Dubai down'.

I just want you, the people who have invested hard earned money into this land to get focused on the real issue here, talking about global crisis, bank lending etc will not solve your problem - the issue with Dubai property is self inflected, so work on solving that problem (no residency),it is the best course of action for you and for me too.

Eid mubarak to one and all.

 

[georgihh]

Ayyan,

I'm one off the smart ones, my residency is tied to my company, not my job - so long as I have a working company they (no-one) can throw me out! (I say no-one - but there is always the Sheiks office).

I'm telling you I live here and know the game, I'm sponsoring a friend of mine who was 'Borne here' lived here all his life here and has never, ever know his so called home country! When he lost his job he was on 1 month notice to go 'WHERE?', **** 30+ years in Dubai - perfect Arabic & English speaking, owning a villa, a Nisan Petrol, a Land cruiser, a Dodge, a speed boat and quad bikes. etc. A real smart guy and a talented asset to Dubai.

He lost his job and was told to 'Go Home', now please, go and ask your financial adviser if this is a position you should put yourself in? See what he tells you, you already know the answer, so it'll be a good judge of your adviser.

They are building the metro etc, not only for the locals, agreed, they are expecting population growth, agreed.

But hell, it has to be in the resident (i.e. buyers) long term interest to make this happen. S**t, I'm not going to sign up for a 10 or 20 year mortgage if I'm on 30 days notice to leave. I'm not going to sign up for this, if at age 60 I have to leave, leave to where? That is telling people like my friend above, make as much as you can now and get the f**k out of here after, where you're going, we don't care!.

These are the realities my friend, everything else is just BS advertising, if you ignore the people who are looking at 10, 20 or lifetime years. Keep focusing on the people who are on 2-3 years work contracts, look at what they buy and you WILL understand why all the lights are out in 'Dubai Marina' or Palm island.

Anyway - as I said at the start of this - I don't want to be a gloom & doom merchant, I have an honest business here so it's not in MY interest to 'bring Dubai down'.

I just want you, the people who have invested hard earned money into this land to get focused on the real issue here, talking about global crisis, bank lending etc will not solve your problem - the issue with Dubai property is self inflected, so work on solving that problem (no residency),it is the best course of action for you and for me too.

Eid mubarak to one and all.

The visa issue is very difficult.
The residency could be given against buying a property but not for free.
I say a deposit (refundable) of 100000 $ plus annual charges of 1000$ should be sufficient to stop the intruders coming to Dubai.
Expect something in this range.
They will come up with similar law in the next couple of months.
Dubai needs money and any cash is highly appreciated

 

[monsi]

The residence issue del boy i think you stated that you have been here 15 years did any one ask you to leave ??

The metro station , the new highways , the new intersections etc etc so they are building all these for the 200k locals they have here ??

hmm ????

I think the point is that a sense of entitlement will make people feel reassured and they will be more likely to commit to buying for personal use.

 

[DelboyG]

The visa issue is very difficult.
The residency could be given against buying a property but not for free.
I say a deposit (refundable) of 100000 $ plus annual charges of 1000$ should be sufficient to stop the intruders coming to Dubai.
Expect something in this range.
They will come up with similar law in the next couple of months.
Dubai needs money and any cash is highly appreciated

georgihh'

A start on the right road, but hell, you don't have any takers, I said 99.9% are out of this market, now your asking the rest to pay more? without any protection from greedy developers trying to support their operations with high priced maintenance schemes? - you need to get them out of the picture first!

Really the best market for Dubai property (I was looking at this for my parents) is the Retirees in the UK, but you can't ask for more than the current over inflated prices, and you need to get the Federal government to change the residencies rules - I'm sure Dubai would have done this long ago, but it is not in their hands to change - that means Abu Dhabi must agree and they have zero interest in supporting their (stupid) rivalry with Dubai

The truth is that Dubai and Abu Dhabi need to come together on this, they need to stop the self interest and rivalry or both property markets will crash and burn.

I'm waiting to see what is next - but those who are waiting to see business as usual are the ones stuck in the old bubble, they will never come out and will keep blaming the USA for all the troubles that happened.

Let us see what is next

 

[Fran]

Why not approaching the cheaper Free Zones (Ajman, RAK, Fujeirah) and registering small company, even virtual office, in order to get the visas until better opportunity arrives?

Registering as a Free Lancer with the Free Zones also is not so costly, but provides visa.

My question is: if you have the visa, the house and the cars, but no job (stable income),how you can maintain your living in UAE?

Also, as for Abu Dhabi and Dubai to come together, they have always been together in a federation and complemented each other political and financial strategies. Even recently, the liquidity problem in UAE was combated through joint efforts, eg. Amlak, Tamweel ++ merger.

 

[DelboyG]

Busted!! - Fran

Why not approaching the cheaper Free Zones (Ajman, RAK, Fujeirah) and registering small company, even virtual office, in order to get the visas until better opportunity arrives?

Registering as a Free Lancer with the Free Zones also is not so costly, but provides visa.

My question is: if you have the visa, the house and the cars, but no job (stable income),how you can maintain your living in UAE?

Also, as for Abu Dhabi and Dubai to come together, they have always been together in a federation and complemented each other political and financial strategies. Even recently, the liquidity problem in UAE was combated through joint efforts, eg. Amlak, Tamweel ++ merger.

You are right, there are ways around the regulations, but why are they telling the end users that you can buy a home in Dubai, but you are on 30 days notice to quit / exit the country and to forget the idea totally if you are over 60?

Don't you see that property is the single biggest purchase in most peoples lives, the conditions above will stop so many people from even thinking about it here, they really are cutting so many of the potential buyers out of the market because they (the buyers) are with good reason afraid of what will be in the future.

Those reasons alone make the current prices unsustainable, hence all the currently empty property available in all of new Dubai. If these visa restrictions stay in place - those properties will stay empty even to 10 years from now.

Register a free zone company and have the labour office come visiting to tell you that you're not a real company - therefore you must be selling visas - 'go direct to jail and don't pass go'. Is that what you are advising potential buyers to do?

And why would they bother if they can buy bigger or better in the UK/USA at better prices? and be certain that tomorrow morning there will not be a new law / fee that'll cost AED.XXX extra out of their fixed income?

 

[zombie]

I don't think the Resident VIsa, which was given to property buyers in the past is going to be the solution. The issue is a combination of delays in Title deed registration PLUS the linking of RERA & the Dept. if Immigration & Naturalisation, so that any sale / purchase of property is associated with a check at the immigration, to see if any visa's have been issued against this.

If you are just looking for a visa not associated to this, you can become an investor in an LLC company(Min capital required in Dhs. 70,000/-),which is a lot less than linking it to a property purchase.

Cheaper freezones could be an alternative, but am not sure about the costs of such.

 

[Fran]

You are right, there are ways around the regulations, but why are they telling the end users that you can buy a home in Dubai, but you are on 30 days notice to quit / exit the country and to forget the idea totally if you are over 60?

Don't you see that property is the single biggest purchase in most peoples lives, the conditions above will stop so many people from even thinking about it here, they really are cutting so many of the potential buyers out of the market because they (the buyers) are with good reason afraid of what will be in the future.

Those reasons alone make the current prices unsustainable, hence all the currently empty property available in all of new Dubai. If these visa restrictions stay in place - those properties will stay empty even to 10 years from now.

Register a free zone company and have the labour office come visiting to tell you that you're not a real company - therefore you must be selling visas - 'go direct to jail and don't pass go'. Is that what you are advising potential buyers to do?

And why would they bother if they can buy bigger or better in the UK/USA at better prices? and be certain that tomorrow morning there will not be a new law / fee that'll cost AED.XXX extra out of their fixed income?

Bottom line is: if you don't have a salary, you can't support your living and this will create problems for you and the country's infrastructure.

Unemployment is not wanted here and there is no reason to fill the jails with people who can't pay their bills, waiting for the sheiks to pardon them and pay their return tickets.

As for Free Zones, 60% of Dubai's income comes from trade through the Free Zones. Trust me, the companies housed there are not selling visas to generate profits.

I wonder why I am wasting my time to respond to nonce..........................

 

[DelboyG]

Busted!! - Fran

Bottom line is: if you don't have a salary, you can't support your living and this will create problems for you and the country's infrastructure.

Unemployment is not wanted here and there is no reason to fill the jails with people who can't pay their bills, waiting for the sheiks to pardon them and pay their return tickets.

As for Free Zones, 60% of Dubai's income comes from trade through the Free Zones. Trust me, the companies housed there are not selling visas to generate profits.

I wonder why I am wasting my time to respond to nonce..........................

If you want to sell 'homes' you have to play by 'world rules', sorry to say - Dubai can't have it's own special way or there will be no buyers - only speculators selling to each other.

I haven't tried it, but I guess with even your best efforts, having bough a property, you could not get through all the paperwork and exit within 30 days, you know the government departments here - it's near impossible to achieve.
Then you are automatically illegal in the country!

Until this years clampdowns, there were many FZ companies selling visas, but that is beside the point, you was the one who bought them into the conversation.

I say again - who will commit to a 10 or 20 year mortgage, if they are 30 days notice to exit the country?? You have to find the answer to that question?. Give the people time to find another job or for a planned exit that will match with the children schooling etc. before you start fining them AED.100 per person, per day, making it even more difficult to leave.

Don't you understand that the 30 day = temporary in the peoples minds and is very fundamental in their thoughts about living here, it effects what they will and will not buy. How will they, they buyers commit, but be ready to run at any time?

Why are you excluding the over 60's, they have a steady disposable income in their pensions, and would not buy in the first place if they didn't have the means to live here.

This is the key to finding end users for the property, give the buyer some stability in the life and the they will commit to 10 or 20 years. Without that, I say you have no buyers for even the existing property. The proof of that IS in all the empty apartments and villas now.