Caponga Beach - Fortaleza

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by DGM42, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    There is another thread open on this subject.Dave ,are you an agent in the Forteleza region(q out)
     
  2. dhoskings

    dhoskings New Member

    Just answer the question Dotty, unless you don't know the answer which is more likely....:rolleyes:
     
  3. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    Good point well made

    Good point, well made. As Brazil gets stronger, so will the Brazilian Real.
     
  4. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    Currency

    The Brazilian Real is at an ideal level at the moment. It is a good level for foreign investors and decent for Brazil Imports. If you look at the history of the Real which was once upon a time (circa 1996) practically one for one...around 3 BRL for 1 Sterling is ideal.

    I appreciate the need for conservatism, however, I have also learnt that some people are always negative as they feel it makes them look intelligent, as eventually all markets go down as well as up...it is a cycle, when the markets go down, negative people feel justified, but they forget the gains they missed out on would have far outweighed the market downturn...historically property prices double every ten years in the vast majority of countries...in London for example property prices have doubled every 7.2 years since WWII.

    Regarding taxes...these are payable on your profit...if what you have been saying is true, there would be no profit so what are you worried about taxes for...no profit, no taxes...I have no problem paying taxes on profit, as in all countries, good accountants can help to keep these down.
     
  5. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Hi Liquid,

    Are you in sales if so why would somebody purchase without gaining profit.Not very good for one's portfolio!! Sorry, but for 1 sterling is not ideal ...................:(
     
  6. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Erm Dotty, the only one saying there would be no profit is you. Liquid said "if what you (Dotty) say is true, then there would be no profit so there would be no taxes"...

    He is saying there WILL be profit, therefore there will be taxes.
     
  7. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    missed the point

    Once again Dotty...I think that you have missed the point.
     
  8. Dotty

    Dotty Banned

    Actually,
    No points missed! Points gained........................:D:D

    feel you've missed the point
     
  9. vinnie77

    vinnie77 New Member

    Plus, it appears they will make 600 (?!) plots available for purchase? If I read the brochure correctly -- I skimmed through it because I'm also exploring other investments and the literature starts to look the same after a while. If they're releasing that many plots of land, I don't see how anyone can expect to make a substantial return on this in the next few years, let alone take advantage of the near-term price appreciation. Add to this those other existing developments that they wrote about in their brochure, which all sound like much more ambitious and enticing projects... it just doesn't make sense to me in spite of the attractive pricing. There's just too much competition shaping up by the looks of things.

    Just my two cents. I'll be posting more info in the Brazil properties section as I learn more from my own research. Right now I'm checking out two of them -- both in the same Ceara location.

    Cheers,

    Vinnie.
     
  10. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    It all depends upon the timescales that you have in mind. Land banking is not a short term gain...and Caponga is really a long term investment....the other developments that you are referring to are far far more expensive and offer something completely different to Caponga. Every portfolio needs diversification.
     
  11. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    Thank you mrvibe, it is always good to hear from others that know the area and understand what the angles are very investing in this part of the world.

    I believe that real estate should always be viewed as a medium to long term investment also.

    You are 100% correct about Aquiraz. This will indeed change the face of this region. I know that it has taken the Portuguese investor behind Aquiraz a long time to get to where Aquiraz is now. I have it on good authority that over 250 Villa lots were sold in Aquiraz within the last month and at prices starting from 240,000 Reals just for the land! We sold a few to western investors, but I believe most were sold to wealthy Brazilians. The Aquiraz Golf Course is partly completed (the first within the region) and the building lots around the Golf course are wonderful.

    The success of Aquiraz will benefit the entire area and Caponga will benefit also. If you want a cheap plot of land with sea views to hold for a while and eventually turn or build on, you don't have much choice other than Caponga Beach...it is a shame that some people do over promise, I prefer to under promise and over deliver, but this seems like a foreign concept to many people, they do not believe in themselves enough to just be straight forward...which is foolish when you have something decent to offer...

    The North East region is without doubt the No. 1 destination in terms of future growth for real estate investment, Brazil is set to grow at levels that it has never done in the past. Yes it is a tough place to do business sometimes...nothing seems easy here, but where on Earth is even close to Brazil in terms of potential profit right now? I have worked in Real estate investment for the past 11 years and firmly believe that I am in the right place, right now...Fortaleza, North East Brazil...If I thought there was a better place out there...I would be there and not here.

    Forums are always a tricky place to go for advice, many people seem to have a hidden objective, others are always negative as they believe that it makes them seem clever, however, I hope that when you read through these links you can spot those that have a decent knowledge and make sense...GOOD LUCK!

    Regards

    AJA
     
  12. mrvibe

    mrvibe New Member


    Thanks for the kind words and the warm welcome, Liquid. Indeed it is importante to learn what others around have to say.

    Those numbers about Riviera are impressive, most of the 312 phase lots have been sold by now at incredible prices, paying R$ 250,00 for m2?? I was quite interested in learning these numbers, I had no doubt rich locals would be first-commers, there is a great amount of wealthy cearenses who can afford it. Alphaville products are also massive sales successes and various other quality developments (2 in Águas Belas, Cumbuco, Taiba, Fortim, are being planned

    It is a landmark in Ceara tourism and real estate, It is the largest international standard tourism development in Latin-America, with an estimated total value of US$ 350 million. The Portuguese guys were great on this and I guess they started some 10 years ago. With world cup and Atlanta direct flights, new infrastructure investments, Ceará will change for sure.

    About Caponga beach, I remember that I got very interested in it last August i think, but by then they were about to start an auction for the all development with 3 international groups, those guys won it. They made a great deal, but it's very hard to get to the ROI they promise.

    Cheers,

    NS
     
  13. Liquid

    Liquid Guest

    The lots in Aquiraz Riviera were approx 1000M2.

    I have a great deal of respect for what they have achieved with Aquiraz.

    My only word of caution on Aguas Belas and one or two other developments in North East Brazil such as The Reef Club in Recife is that at this point in time it is very difficult to build huge developments...Aquiraz managed to get the local government to pay and install a fair bit of infrastructure around Aquiraz. Projects such as Aguas Belas will also need that type of support from local government and due to the current financial times that we are in, this is a big ask...not impossible but a big ask. I have a copy of the report that shows where the world cup budget will go and I do not see any of it being ear marked for Aguas Belas...is the government about to support Aguas Belas having commited to 9.4 Billion Reals in and around Fortaleza? I am not so sure...I hope so, because the more projects that this part of Brazil has that are as well planned out and as saleable as Aguas Belas the better...I do not see Aguas Belas as competition as they are much bigger than we are, however, I am concerned that Aguas Belas along with certain other projects will face massive delays. You mentioned that you were planning your business around Aguas Belas in a previous post...I wouldn't want you to be let down by them and face hardships...I have no idea what your business is and wish you the very best of luck...perhaps my thoughts will help in some small way.

    Take care

    AJA
     
  14. Lua Brisa

    Lua Brisa New Member

    Caponga, forever changed...

    I bought a place in Caponga, January 2006. We did a total rehash. It has been great fun, but to be honest we never knew what the impact of the place would be as an investment. Nor could we foresee pace and tempo.

    In september I visited Aquiraz Riviera. I touched the grass of a genuine 9 hole golf course, I had a couple of drinks in a real clubhouse. I tried to buy a few lots, first fase. That wasn't easy. Most of it had already been sold. All of this not maybe, not intentially, not virtual, but hard copy: real. From this moment I knew for sure: this region has forever changed.


    Regards,

    Lua Brisa






     
  15. lagarto

    lagarto New Member

    Caponga beach

    Caponga beach exists and there is a project or land division which means that they are selling off plots.
    What exactly are you buying at GBP7575 as this would be expensive just for a building plot in an area which is not recognised as a big tourist location. Resale would be difficult and take along time unless you buy land which is beachfront as this is sought after.
    If you are looking to move to and live in Brazil then Caponga is a quaint and quiet location and idea for retirement making it a good investment...but...you will not make 373% in 3 years.
     
  16. Lua Brisa

    Lua Brisa New Member

    In Caponga the fishermen still rule. Thank God!

    I visited the project a couple of weeks ago. The road from Caponga to the project is lovely. Especially so short after the rainy season. Green is the color. The infra is in place. A few miles from the beach maybe. A small part has ocean view. The rest has no view at all, or we have to call it bush view, or hopefully bungalow view in the future. No palm trees there to comfort us. Not appealing at all. You still want to finish your ROI conversation?

    As for Caponga. I think it is an interesting location. Every couple of months a new beach villa is completed. Every year a new condo or hotel. Carlos Melo Vidal finished his two story beach hotel (26 appartments) a year ago. Everything sold. But the most interesting thing is what we can't see. These are the projects planned, not one, but many. Caponga and neighbour Aguas Belas is packed with huge projects. In Balbino (2 km's away) we have the Aquapura 56 ha plan. In Aguas Belas we have the 134 ha golfcourse hotel resort plan. Barra Velha, Barra Nova and Uruau, each have their own huge projects planned.

    I know there are problems with Semace, and probably some financial hickups too. But I think I am not the only one who thinks that Caponga is an interesting location.

    You might know by now, I have a property there. In Caponga the fishermen still rule. Thank God! That's why I bought it in the first place. But I am afraid this will not be the case for much longer...

    Lua Brisa
     
  17. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Thanks for the feedback Lua Brisa.
     
  18. mrvibe

    mrvibe New Member

    I agree with you, this is a very good description of the Caponga Beach project, I have visited and it is exactily as you say. I guess the ROI numbers came from misleading advertising which you can find here: Fortaleza property | Brazil Land For Sale | Caponga Beach

    Vidal's hotel has 3 floor not 2, which should have not been allowed as there are restrictions on the beach front regarding height.

    Caponga was one of the most famous beaches for locals some years ago, has lost some of this fame, but they are working to get it back on the map. Águas Belas is a paradise which has been snapped by Portuguese people, I know a lot of them who own property there, also because of Vidal's developments.

    We are preparing a small scale development in Caponga, which should be ready for construction in about a month, will let you know more details later.

    Ah, I own a house in Caponga and, although I live in Fortaleza, I go there every week and I get along quite well with locals.

    _________________________
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  19. mrvibe

    mrvibe New Member

    You are absolutely right about government support for Aquiraz, which will not happen in Águas Belas, in my believe. Aquiraz Riviera was a happening which shouldn't repeated so soon, even if Canoa and Jeri are receiving a great deal of attention from state government. However, I have heard today that Cascavel government has gained a R$ 5 M state financing for coast regeneration, including a small marina and beach bars improvement. Of course it's not the same support Aquiraz Riviera has, but it's something.

    I also know that one of the resorts planned for Águas Belas will not happen, locals have mobilized to stop it, as it was located in a sensible area and a green public area will be created in that spot. A rare situation in Ceará which, in my believe, is positive for both locals and investors, as natural landscape will be preserved.

    As for our development, we are starting low and slowly and we will not need massive goverment support nor depend on foreigners as buyers to succeed. We are mostly targeting locals and we are engaged in contributing to Ceará's and Caponga/Águas Belas's development.
     
  20. Lua Brisa

    Lua Brisa New Member

    Caponga beach facts

    You immediately know if people are connected when they have their facts right. You were right about the 3 floors of Melo Vidal. And he should not have allowed. And it seems he got away with it. What do we say? Welcome to Brazil!
    Same subject, I am very curious what is going to happen in Lagoinha with the huge hotel project. What is it 6, 7 stories high? I think the building process has been stopped (for a while). Also there I think they will get away with it.

    The other subject mcvibe is mentioning I think is interesting too. You say that Caponga has been more vibrant in the past. From what I hear this is true. But isn't this true for the first whole 100 km strip east of Fortaleza? I have the impression that after the bridge over the river has been build, attention has been shifting towards the west coast. Another story is that when Caponga was more vibrant that they started to raised their prices, clientele wasn't amused and started to look elswhere. Finally local politics might be of influence too. Maybe other villages invested more in infra structure, marketing and events, than Caponga. Although I think that people like Vidal, we already mentioned the guy, can pull a few strings here. I would welcome your visions on this subject, the difference between west and east coast near Fortaleza.

    KInd regards,


    Lua B
     
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