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ady1231
New Member
Hi Mutrice;
So, do these plots have a planning permission? They are advertising everything for about 15k Usd/ lot , about 500sqm.
I think its reasonable, what do you suggest?
So, do these plots have a planning permission? They are advertising everything for about 15k Usd/ lot , about 500sqm.
I think its reasonable, what do you suggest?
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ady1231
New Member
guys you still didn't answer the guy from norway, of what do u think about the development? i couldn't find an overview of the project on their website, just villa designs and lots, and it's confusing!
J
JMBroad
New Member
Depends which one you are talking about. The one to the east of Canoa or the one to the west.
The one to the west, being loteado by Visao sounds great when it is promoted as "100 plots beachfront near Canoa" except it's on a development of almost 4000 plots larger than the principality of Monaco where each plot has to build their own septic tank and water well.
The one to the west of Canoa never replied to our multiple requests for legal documents so I'd be wary of that one too.
J
JMBroad
New Member
Of course there could be a third I don't know about but as the website isn't working I can't check. 
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LisaNic
New Member
Be Careful!!
Please be careful! Use a reputable agent and ensure that you carry out full due diligence using a reputable INDEPENDENT lawyer!!
You need to ensure any land plots for villa builds are classed as "lotamiento" which means the land has been zoned by the environment agencies and the municipality exclusively for the constrcution of villas.
I am unsure of the other project that John is referring to on the other side of Canoa with the septic tank problem, however John if you want to PM me with the name I will happily shed some more light if I can.
Thanks
The one that John is referring to that has problems with paperwork is Rivera Canoa Quebrada offer by Riviera Real Estate. Their website is RivieraEstate.Org - Land, property, houses & apartments for rent or sale in Brazil and Portugal. - Home. and features lots of information about the project. Now I carried out full due diligance on this project and after a long time it was discovered that the developer did not own the land. This problem may have been resolved now, although upto about mid january it had not. The deal with these lots was the client paid full balance within 2 weeks of reservation and took ownership of their lot. Now I know a number of people that reserved lots in June and July last year that still havent taken ownership due to legal issues!!Of course there could be a third I don't know about but as the website isn't working I can't check.
Please be careful! Use a reputable agent and ensure that you carry out full due diligence using a reputable INDEPENDENT lawyer!!
You need to ensure any land plots for villa builds are classed as "lotamiento" which means the land has been zoned by the environment agencies and the municipality exclusively for the constrcution of villas.
I am unsure of the other project that John is referring to on the other side of Canoa with the septic tank problem, however John if you want to PM me with the name I will happily shed some more light if I can.
Thanks
W
wolfgang
New Member
Anyone know the bottom line or conducted d.d. on Beachfront Brazil's land plots at Majorlandia? It is located mid way between Canoa and the Scandinavian development to the South
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JMBroad
New Member
I'll send you the name and details
Not sure which one that is Wolfgang.
Not sure which one that is Wolfgang.
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ady1231
New Member
hey wolfgang,
No, but i have hired an independant lawyer to conduct DD for Flexieras beach development (Coconut grove) , and he seemed happy with it.
Si i have bought a land there.
Cheers
No, but i have hired an independant lawyer to conduct DD for Flexieras beach development (Coconut grove) , and he seemed happy with it.
Si i have bought a land there.
Cheers
W
wolfgang
New Member
Ady 123,
Yes i have received some feedback which indicates that the Flexeiras plots checked out too.I have sent you a private message btw,
W.
Yes i have received some feedback which indicates that the Flexeiras plots checked out too.I have sent you a private message btw,
W.
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plima
New Member
Don't buy land utill........
Canoa Quebrada attracts all sorts of unsavory characters, proceed with caution. Nothing is what it appears to be in paradise. The sort of person you will want to do business with seldom has his hand out to greet you. In fact, he or guys like him really don't want to speak with you. But if you value your money you must seek them out. Start by sitting at Cafe Habana. Take your time. Listen. And for gods sakes don't leave your common sense back in your own country. PRL
Canoa Quebrada attracts all sorts of unsavory characters, proceed with caution. Nothing is what it appears to be in paradise. The sort of person you will want to do business with seldom has his hand out to greet you. In fact, he or guys like him really don't want to speak with you. But if you value your money you must seek them out. Start by sitting at Cafe Habana. Take your time. Listen. And for gods sakes don't leave your common sense back in your own country. PRL
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plima
New Member
Don't buy land until........
Canoa Quebrada attracts all sorts of unsavory characters, proceed with caution. Nothing is what it appears to be in paradise. The sort of person you will want to do business with seldom has his hand out to greet you. In fact, he or guys like him really don't want to speak with you. But if you value your money you must seek them out. Start by sitting at Cafe Habana. Take your time. Listen. And for gods sakes don't leave your common sense back in your own country. PRL
Canoa Quebrada attracts all sorts of unsavory characters, proceed with caution. Nothing is what it appears to be in paradise. The sort of person you will want to do business with seldom has his hand out to greet you. In fact, he or guys like him really don't want to speak with you. But if you value your money you must seek them out. Start by sitting at Cafe Habana. Take your time. Listen. And for gods sakes don't leave your common sense back in your own country. PRL
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peter amil
New Member
Beware the lawyer!
Word to the wise: Brazil is not the US nor is it Europe. Canoa Quebrada is not Sao Paulo. DO NOT Expect the lawyer to do what's best for you. If you do you'll get burned. As a gringo you will get double burned. Cearense have a Napoleonic complex and they take it out on us gringos. Do not use a lawyer for anything but pushing papers. Even then you must be diligent or you will get burned. What does this all mean? DO NOT do any business in the northeast unless you have spent considerable time here. Time allows you to see the players at the table. Who's bluffing and who's really got cards to show. As for this particular property it exists but its growing weeds. They say building will start in 2 years. They say you can get title. In Brazil they say lots of things. Some of it is true most false. My advice, Canoa is a great investment but start real, real, real slow.
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JMBroad
New Member
Hi Peter and thanks for participating on the forums. However I disagree with you on the way you are looking at it - I beleive time is an unreasonable way of determining how well you'll do on your investment. I know far too many people who live here and have lived here (northeast of Brazil) for some time and have got burned, and I know many more people who visited for a week or two but who have made a lot of money and safe investments.
In fact quite a few of the ones who get burned do so exactly because they live here. More often than not it is because of their "holier than thou" approach to Brasil and the Brasilian people. :banghead: Because they live here and interact with Brasilian people all the time, they get a reputation for being a "smart alec" who knows more than everyone else. If you get that reputation, everyone will try and prove you wrong by making you screw up. It's simply the way the country works.
If you treat the locals as equals and respect them they will respect you. Take the same amount of care with your business in Brasil as you would at home - do the same checks, albeit more exhaustively in Brasil and you should do fine.
Don't just hand a cheque to the first person you meet with no written or verbal contract (yes, you'd be surprised how many Gringos actually do that over here.)
Do your own research on the company you are buying from. Hire independent lawyers. Time is irrelevant. Checking all the facts of your deal is not. You can live here for 20 years but if you refuse to take them seriously and refuse to check the legalities of your investment, they will clean you out. For tips on what to check, read the "Absolute Basics, Start Here" thread.
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Coqueiro
New Member
Whilst understanding what you are saying is in response to the poster above, and agreeing every one likes to see a ****** get taken down a peg, at the end of the day this is just another example of endless excuses for dishonesty.
J
JMBroad
New Member
True but it's the culture here - same as arriving late, ignoring deadlines and staring at people if you fancy them. Freaky at the start but we just have to get used to it if we are going to live, work or invest in Brazil.
I still prefer the idea of simply having to behave the same way you do at home (hopefully) and respecting other citizens rather than having to adapt to the laws of somewhere like, say, Dubai where you can end up in prison or worse for doing what you'd do at home without a second thought.
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peter amil
New Member
Thanks for the reply. We both think that investing in Brazil is a good idea. So don't take this wrong, but what planet do you live on? I mean really "If you treat the locals as equals and respect them they will respect you"??? I'm not going to get into the cultural peculiarities of Brazilians. Nor am I going to re tell horror stories of investors who made the mistake of thinking lawyers, judges and real estate agents abide by the law. So, anyone reading this will have to decide for themselves. For those thinking of investing in Brazil take a tip by someone who's trying to sell you something or me who's doesn't care less what you do.
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dhoskings
New Member
My father always said: never trust anyone who says "trust me I am honest". Saved me a fortune so far, so sorry if I wonder what your angle is....
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JMBroad
New Member
Maybe because I'm so used to the culture I didn't express myself properly.
If you trust everyone and anyone simply because you like them you'll lose a lot of money. Regardless where you do it and more so in Brazil.
When I say "respect them" I don't mean trust them implicitly because they are a doctor, lawyer or judge. I mean "respect" them. Treat them with respect and respect the fact that they are judging you 100% of the time. If you trust them blindly they will think you are weak or stupid and take advantage of you.
Reminds me of the story a member of the forums told where he hated Brazil because he came here, gave someone he met 100.000 US$ to invest for him and they refused to give it back. No kidding! Would anyone even consider doing that at home?
If you show them disrespect (as so many "Gringos" do) you are asking for trouble - if you come to Brazil and spend all your time complaining about how ignorant Brazilians are and how bad the country is and how nothing works eventually someone who understands you will hear you, word will get around and your chances of doing business here are over for good.
So when I say "respect" them I don't mean just be polite, and I don't mean trust them blindly... I mean take the time to learn to truly respect the Brazilian culture and adapt to it. You won't be able to respect it until you understand it so do what it takes to understand the culture.
People accept that investing somewhere like Dubai, Morocco, Qatar, Egypt, etc there is a huge cultural difference so people tend to adapt or at least try to adapt. Because Brazil feels a lot more like Europe, people tend to ignore the huge cultural difference and just dive in head first and arms thrashing then complain when things get broken.
Hope that made more sense
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Coqueiro
New Member
I have only lived here full time for 4 years but my two cents on this are:
Do not take at face value any information you are given, even if given by a public official or professional in the field, treble check everything.
Pay as little up front as possible to close the deal.
Use contracts and take copies of the Identity cards proof of address etc, You will need them if it goes wrong to open a case with the police. With out an address and ID card info there is little the police can do.
Unfortunately if it needs saying you are probably already lost, but to reiterate what JMBROAD says, respect the people you are living and doing business with. That does not mean dropping your trousers and bending over, do your research, always negotiate, pay a fair price and if you can pay on time. IME do this and you will have respect in return, and people will naturally want to work with you.
Do not take at face value any information you are given, even if given by a public official or professional in the field, treble check everything.
Pay as little up front as possible to close the deal.
Use contracts and take copies of the Identity cards proof of address etc, You will need them if it goes wrong to open a case with the police. With out an address and ID card info there is little the police can do.
Unfortunately if it needs saying you are probably already lost, but to reiterate what JMBROAD says, respect the people you are living and doing business with. That does not mean dropping your trousers and bending over, do your research, always negotiate, pay a fair price and if you can pay on time. IME do this and you will have respect in return, and people will naturally want to work with you.
J
JMBroad
New Member
To get back on topic of the thread while at the same time continuing the train of thought we've recently been discussing here is a brief anecdote:
While I was doing market research and analysis on Brazil I received a fair number of developments each week from developers in Brazil which I had to cross-check, compare to other real estate product and - if I decided it was competetive enough with regards to value for money, likely to show capital appreciation, sellable, etc - then I would check the legalities (licenses, developers company background, developers liquidity, etc) - the whole process normally took about 6 months for ones that we actually pursued all the way.
I was offered a development which I was told was 100 exclusive beach front plots on a luxury development in Canoa Quebrada. The price per m2 was attractive - Canoa Quebrada is a nice location, the exclusive development sounded nice the way it was advertised to me, especially at those prices. So I asked for the legal documentation to do more checks. I read the first paper I got and scratched the idea of the development straight away. They had sent me a due diligence report in Portuguese which after I'd read the whole thing realised that the development was in fact almost 4000 units (of which we were being offered 100 "exclusively"),the development wasn't "exclusive" - that was a translation "mistake" and that the development wasn't a luxury development - another translation "mistake" as they were trying to tell me that I could build a luxury house on my plot if I wanted to. The actual development was a series of independent plots, not a gated community so no security and no roads, communal gardens, etc and no running water or sewage would be connected to the plot so the owner of each plot would need to build a septic tank AND a drinking water well on his plot. And the other 3000 ++ plot owners would need to do the same thing. If you can try and image 4000 sespits and 4000 water wells built on a foundation of sand it's not a pretty image.
Although I said "no thank you", I received rave reviews about the same development from numerous other property agents around the world who asked me if we'd be interested in marketing it for them. For a while, it was being advertised as the best things since sliced bread. I don't know if this thread was made about that development but it was about the same time I was offered it that the thread was created so...
While I was doing market research and analysis on Brazil I received a fair number of developments each week from developers in Brazil which I had to cross-check, compare to other real estate product and - if I decided it was competetive enough with regards to value for money, likely to show capital appreciation, sellable, etc - then I would check the legalities (licenses, developers company background, developers liquidity, etc) - the whole process normally took about 6 months for ones that we actually pursued all the way.
I was offered a development which I was told was 100 exclusive beach front plots on a luxury development in Canoa Quebrada. The price per m2 was attractive - Canoa Quebrada is a nice location, the exclusive development sounded nice the way it was advertised to me, especially at those prices. So I asked for the legal documentation to do more checks. I read the first paper I got and scratched the idea of the development straight away. They had sent me a due diligence report in Portuguese which after I'd read the whole thing realised that the development was in fact almost 4000 units (of which we were being offered 100 "exclusively"),the development wasn't "exclusive" - that was a translation "mistake" and that the development wasn't a luxury development - another translation "mistake" as they were trying to tell me that I could build a luxury house on my plot if I wanted to. The actual development was a series of independent plots, not a gated community so no security and no roads, communal gardens, etc and no running water or sewage would be connected to the plot so the owner of each plot would need to build a septic tank AND a drinking water well on his plot. And the other 3000 ++ plot owners would need to do the same thing. If you can try and image 4000 sespits and 4000 water wells built on a foundation of sand it's not a pretty image.
Although I said "no thank you", I received rave reviews about the same development from numerous other property agents around the world who asked me if we'd be interested in marketing it for them. For a while, it was being advertised as the best things since sliced bread. I don't know if this thread was made about that development but it was about the same time I was offered it that the thread was created so...
