Blindness and stupidity when investing in Brazil

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PeixeGato

New Member
"beenthere"....what's your problem buddy?? Ya know, it's assholes like you that when I see groups of gringo's that got screwed, I think to myself, "well, some of them deserved it."[/QUOTE]

Sorry Ralph, I was with you for a while, but that quote lost you a lot of credibility. Personal attacks are never warranted. So instead of sounding like someone with credible concerns about the market and someone who is looking out for potential investors with some interesting points that may not have been considered, you look like an angry, bitter individual who would hate to see anyone else succeed at anything.

Life is too short to be so angry.

PG
 
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sjg-bop

New Member
Tend to agree with most of surfingbrazil's comments actually, and sounds like he knows the country & colture very well indeed. I have lived in Brazil for 5 years, & can't understand for the life of me how guaranteed rentals will be delivered in places and hour or so's drive from the nearest city or major town (there's no infrastructure in these places) ... the property there will be lucky to receive any rental income in my opinion as it stands today! Ponta Negra on the other hand and districts within the city of Natal or close to limits can receive fairly decent income if the property is strategically placed (anywhere within a brief 15 minute drive to the centre). As surfingbrazil states, out of town developments are great for longer term investments and holidays, and if you can find the rental market on-tap yourself, then fine!
 
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michaelbush

New Member
Where do you live SJG-BOP? I am in Natal. Re the rental guarantees, these are given because the developer knows it will be difficult to rent in the early period. However, the mature condo`s should attract clients from anywhere including Brasilians, even if they are away from the commercial centres.
 
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beenthere

Guest
No dickweek, I'm stating that the level of corruption in the U.S. is INFINITELY less than in countries like Brazil. And, I'm 100% aware of the corruption that exists in the U.S. in the form of PAC's and the military industrial complex...so don't come with that ****!

Do you read AND comprehend english or just pretend to?
If you can call me dickweek, I will call you seppo.. So seppo, how do you 100% know about corruption in the US, are you involved in it?
 
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surfingbrazil

New Member
MORE PETROL INTO THE FIRE

Every “investor to be” in Northeastern Brazil must have a map.
Well, I am not joking!
Touros, Jacuma, Tibao do Sul are not Natal.
The same way Montecarlo is not Cannes or Kiel is not Hamburg.

Some of these fantastic offers aiming at the naïve foreigner, including several in the sales section of this forum, are a scam. They are presenting the off plan project as situated in the coast of Natal, a short run down or up the road from Natal or similar misleading descriptions.

Whether a distance of 50 or 100 km might not be a big deal in Europe, it is indeed a very big deal in RIO GRANDE DO NORTE.

In places like Maracajau, San Miguel do Gostoso, Jacuma, Tabatinga, …. You name it …
There is virtually not infrastructure at all, not even an ATM to take out money.

They are beautiful places, yes, but think twice before you believe the forecast of thousands of tourists and guaranteed rent. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
 
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michaelbush

New Member
Maybe some of these people are not looking for "infrastructure". Maybe the more simple life suits a beach holiday. Not all are looking for the night life of Ponta Negra. These areas and the villages have a people who are friendly, more honest, and while the life is simple, they still can smile and laugh and dance the night away. And as for being a long way from the airport - well not everyone is looking to get off a plane and to their hotel in less than 10 minutes. I am aslo of the opinion that these areas will flourish and grow very rapidly in popularity over the next 2 - 3 years. But only time will tell.
 
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Golfingworld

New Member
Surfing, I am right with you on this...agree entirely. Simple fact is that most buyers never go there and get their feet wet and understand the geography. They bleeive what they are told and look at a crazy internet map and think..this can't be far. There are two markets anywhere overseas..the expensive ones for those who won't get off their backside and go there and the more realistic priced ones for those who are prepared to go and see for themselves. Everyone makes their choice, but if you want to sit in front of your pc and buy a place 5000 miles away you get what you pay for..higher prices and no guarantees.
 
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PeixeGato

New Member
Anyone who buys a piece of real estate without going to visit the property first hand is looking for touble, regardless of where the property is.

Each person has their own investment objectives and it is important that each person clarify those objectives before beginning their search.

PG
 
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michaelbush

New Member
I agree - too many buy off-plan or plots without visiting the country, and expect everything to be fine and they will make "loadsamoney"!! Unfortunately we still do not have too many international flights so maybe it is not so bad - for the rest of us who believe in seeing what we buy!
 
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RalphJ

New Member
"beenthere"....what's your problem buddy?? Ya know, it's assholes like you that when I see groups of gringo's that got screwed, I think to myself, "well, some of them deserved it."
peixegato said:
Sorry Ralph, I was with you for a while, but that quote lost you a lot of credibility. Personal attacks are never warranted. So instead of sounding like someone with credible concerns about the market and someone who is looking out for potential investors with some interesting points that may not have been considered, you look like an angry, bitter individual who would hate to see anyone else succeed at anything.

Life is too short to be so angry.
PG[/QUOTE]


Peixe....you want to know the situation buddy?

Here in Aracaju over the last 4 years I have met and/or am familiar with approximately 100 english people that either got 1.) completely screwed-lost everything they invested. or 2.) got screwed in some way, shape, or form. But are still battling, in court and other venues, to get their due.

Over the last 2 years in particular I have helped NUMEROUS of these english investors. Not only at "no cost" to them but have actually incurred costs of my own in helping them. Also at the expense of causing myself personal problems (threats and being physically attacked by the current builder that has screwed them at "Viva Vida") in helping these folks, only to get a small handful of english like our idiot friend "beenthere" (you just have to love the username!) that responds to someone's good advice, and also to someone helping them and in the process costing himself money and making problems for himself, all in the name of "gringo goodwill", if you wish to call it that, by thinking that I have some sort of "angle". That I'm out looking to screw people in some way, shape, or form. And if you read my posts from the very beginning you'll see that that is indeed what he has inferred.

Well, people like that I certainly don't need. And as I stated, unfortunately I have met some (only a small handful) gringo's here in Brazil that have been rooked and there was just no saving them. They've been so brainwashed by the people that have rooked them, or their pride is such that they just can't admit to the reality, that they attempt to make the guy that's giving good advice and attempting to sincerely help as being the bad guy or having another agenda.
 
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michaelbush

New Member
I guess Ralph is talking about cities in Brasil. The government statistics of crime per 100,000k capita is available on line and the last time I looked Natal was lowest and Recife was above Sao Paulo. Ralph did not say there was little or no crime in Natal.
It is a pity some people on this Forum see fit to slag off others. As far as I can tell the majority here are trying to be constructive not destructive, so please if you wish to argue in that fashion please use PM's!!
 
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RalphJ

New Member
MORE PETROL INTO THE FIRE

Every “investor to be” in Northeastern Brazil must have a map.
Well, I am not joking!
Touros, Jacuma, Tibao do Sul are not Natal.
The same way Montecarlo is not Cannes or Kiel is not Hamburg.

Some of these fantastic offers aiming at the naïve foreigner, including several in the sales section of this forum, are a scam. They are presenting the off plan project as situated in the coast of Natal, a short run down or up the road from Natal or similar misleading descriptions.

Whether a distance of 50 or 100 km might not be a big deal in Europe, it is indeed a very big deal in RIO GRANDE DO NORTE.

In places like Maracajau, San Miguel do Gostoso, Jacuma, Tabatinga, …. You name it …
There is virtually not infrastructure at all, not even an ATM to take out money.

They are beautiful places, yes, but think twice before you believe the forecast of thousands of tourists and guaranteed rent. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

You couldn't be more correct surfingbrazil...it amazes me that numbers of people that can and do actually fall for this type of thing. When I see people/companies marketing such projects the first thing in my mind is "Keifer Robins" and company!!
 
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RalphJ

New Member
I guess Ralph is talking about cities in Brasil. The government statistics of crime per 100,000k capita is available on line and the last time I looked Natal was lowest and Recife was above Sao Paulo. Ralph did not say there was little or no crime in Natal.
It is a pity some people on this Forum see fit to slag off others. As far as I can tell the majority here are trying to be constructive not destructive, so please if you wish to argue in that fashion please use PM's!!

I'm talking about all municipalities. And when people talk about "the safest place in brazil", it more than likely is more dangerous or as dangerous as the "most dangerous place in england". And that is just a fact of life in a country that has 60,000 + murders per year.

Murder in Brazil Is Not Just a Big-City Problem Anymore Written by Elma Lia Nascimento
Wednesday, 28 February 2007
It's common knowledge that while Brazil's largest cities, like São Paulo, Rio and Salvador, are plagued by violence the rest of the country still offers plenty of places, which are islands of quiet and safety. This common knowledge, however, has just been debunked.

A study by the Organization of Ibero-American States shows that violent crimes in Brazil are moving from the capitals to the country's interior. Murders, the report reveals, are now spread throughout 556 or 10% of the 5560 Brazilian municipalities.

Rio, São Paulo and all other densely populated cities don't make into the 10 worst cities for violent death. They don't appear even among the 100 worst cities. Rio de Janeiro shows up at 107th place with 57.2 murders per 100,000 and São Paulo only makes it at 182nd place with 48.2 homicides per 100,000.

While falling in the big cities the murder rate has been steadily increasing in the hinterland, however.

The 10 most violent municipalities in Brazil don't even include a capital city. Among them only two in fact are in metropolitan areas: Serra, in the state of Espírito Santo and Ilha de Itamaracá, in Pernambuco.

The research, which was a joint effort with Brazil's Health Ministry, shows that Brazilian champion of murder is not a big town, but Colniza, a small 13,000-residents city in the state of Mato Grosso, which has had over 20 murders a year for the last three years, putting it at the top with a rate of 165 deaths per 100,000 residents.

All numbers are from 2004, the last year in which the statistical data have been consolidated.

The 556 cities analyzed in the study concentrate 71.8% of all the murders in Brazil. While Colniza appears as number 1, the last town in the list, Nova América, in the state of Goiás, appears with 29.8 homicides per 100,000, which still puts it inside an area that the Inter-American Development Bank (IADB) classifies as presenting "total rupture of the public safety mechanisms." These are cities where the population neither trusts the police nor believes they can solve their problems.

A recent Violence Map drawn by the Brazilian government has shown that while the Brazilian population increased 16.5% in the decade going from 1994 to 2004, the number of murders during the same period grew 48.4%, from 32.603 deaths a year to 48,374.

Some of Brazil's most violent places are new towns created with the deforestation of the Amazon and they include besides Colniza, Juruena, São José do Xingu and Aripuanã, all Mato in Grosso and Tailândia, in the state of Pará, where lawlessness seems to be the rule. They are in fact nobody's land.

Naturally, the number of murders is not exactly small in the capitals. Only seven from Brazil's 26 capitals do not show up among the 556 meanies and the metropolitan areas of the capitals of Rio de Janeiro, Pernambuco and Espírito are some of the most lethal areas in the country. Since 1998, Pernambuco and Espírito Santo have appeared in the Violence Map among the most dangerous states to your life.

"These are cities where there are huge fights for the land, involving Indians, deforestation and the illegal appropriation of areas. These are very remote regions, of difficult access, where the government and laws are absent," says the report's author, sociologist Julio Jacobo Waiselfisz, for whom Brazil's violence has reached unbearable highs.

Commenting the study, Brazil's Health Minister, Agenor Alves, said that "the data are not encouraging at all." "This is an alarming worrisome situation," he stated, adding that the new numbers will be useful in helping the government to adopt the right policies to lessen the problem of violence in Brazil.

With 48.374 homicides in 2004, Brazil is considered the world's 4th worst country in number of murders just behind Colombia, Russia and Venezuela. And this number could be worse if the real numbers were in. Waiselfisz believes that there are 15% more homicides in Brazil than the statistics show.

Thousands of deaths are never reported to the authorities. In this case, as he believes, the victims are buried in clandestine cemeteries or just abandoned in the jungles and rivers where they are never found or accounted for.

Top 30 municipalities where murder is a problem in Brazil (average rate for 2002/2004):

City, State, Murder Rate per 100,000, Ranking

Colniza MT 165.3 1st
Juruena MT 137.8 2nd
Coronel Sapucaia MS 116.4 3rd
Serra ES 111.3 4th
São José do Xingu MT 109.6 5th
Vila Boa GO 107.0 6th
Tailândia PA 104.9 7th
Aripuanã MT 98.2 8th
Ilha de Itamaracá PE 95.1 9th
Macaé RJ 94.5 10th
Foz do Iguaçu PR 94.3 11th
Itaguaí RJ 92.7 12th
Recife PE 91.2 13th
Tunas do Paraná PR 86.8 14th
Itaboraí RJ 83.7 15th
Cariacica ES 83.3 16th
Cabo de Santo Agostinho PE 82.2 17th
Santa Cruz do Xingu MT 81.7 18th
Duque de Caxias RJ 80.9 19th
Ribeirão PE 79.4 20th
Rio Bonito do Iguaçu PR 79.3 21st
Vitória ES 78.6 22nd
Nova Iguaçu RJ 78.5 23rd
Vicente Dutra RS 78.1 24th
Cotriguaçu MT 77.4 25th
Buritis RO 77.3 26th
Jaboatão dos Guararapes PE 76.9 27th
São Sebastião SP 76.9 28th
Agrestina PE 75.8 29th
Diadema SP 74.6 30th

Rio de Janeiro RJ 57.2 107th
São Paulo SP 48.2 182nd

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RalphJ

New Member
More Civilians Murdered in Brazil in One Year than in Iraq After 3 Years of War
Written by Francesco Neves
Tuesday, 26 September 2006


About 45,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the invasion of their country by the United States in March 2003. In 2005 alone over 55,000 Brazilians were murdered in a non-declared civil war that has been ravaging Brazil for years.

According to just-released data by Brazil's Justice Ministry more than 150 Brazilians suffered violent death each day last year. The government, however, called reporters to tell that crime has been dropping in Brazil in recent years mainly due to disarmament campaigns.

For Marcelo Durante, the Justice Ministry's report coordinator, the biggest reduction in criminality occurred in states where more people participated in the government program to buy back firearms.

Durante also revealed that many violent crimes are underreported in Brazil. He mentioned for example that it's believed that 75% of robberies and 85% of rapes are never reported to the police.

Many Brazilian seem to think that reporting those crimes would be just a waste of time since the authorities wouldn't do anything anyway.

The government study listed crimes that occurred in cities with more than a 100,000 inhabitants in 2004 and 2005. The numbers come straight from the states Security Secretariats.

The state of Rio de Janeiro despite a 4% decrease in the number of violent deaths kept its title as murder champion followed by Pernambuco state in the Brazilian northeast.

Camaragibe, a city in Recife's (capital of Pernambuco) metropolitan area, was the municipality with the highest number of violent deaths. There were 180.9 murders for each 100 thousand residents during the period studied.

Duque de Caxias, in Rio de Janeiro, came in second with 120.7 deaths per 100,000. And it was a big surprise to see Curitiba, capital of the southern state of Paraná, appearing in third, with a rate of 119.9 deaths.

For comparison's sake, New Orleans, the US most violent city had a murder rate of 53.1 deaths per 100,000 before the Katrina hurricane. In Washington DC the rate is 45 per 100,000, in Detroit, 41.8 and in Iraq 27.5 violent deaths per 100,000 people.

All over Brazil, the number of deaths by violent crime grew 1% from 2004 to 2005, raising from 54,696 homicides to 55.312. This despite the reduction of murders in 11 states including Rio Grande do Sul, which saw an expressive decline of 35%.
 
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michaelbush

New Member
Thanks for that Ralph - most informative article. Advice for tourists remains the same as anywhere, do not do what you would not do in your own country - do not leave your car with windows open, do not take more cash tha you need for the day, do not flash your Rolex watch around(even if fake!) better do not bring it to Brasil, Do not venture into unknown areas alone, particularly at night, avoid driving long distances at night, do not stop to help someone on quiet roads, it could be a planned robbery, etc etc. A great proportion of these crime statistics are drug related or domestic as in most countries.
 
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nickohorny

New Member
Hi guys

Michael / Ralph, do you both live in Natal?
what is crime activity like in this area on average? Is it common to find a murder on the news on in the local paper?
 
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beenthere

Guest
Hey Curly;

Natal having the lowest crime rate in Brazil??? Hahahahaha!!! Man, you sure showed your ignorance of the place with that statement. Are you part of the "3 Stooges" investment group?
My mistake Seppo, what I meant is this.

"A recent survey conducted by IPEA - Institute for Applied Economics Research, an accredited official research institution, showed that Natal is the safest city, among all capital cities of Brazilian States."

So if you knew Brazil as well as you claim to, you would have corrected me instead of just slagging me off.
 
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beenthere

Guest
PG


Peixe....you want to know the situation buddy?

Here in Aracaju over the last 4 years I have met and/or am familiar with approximately 100 english people that either got 1.) completely screwed-lost everything they invested. or 2.) got screwed in some way, shape, or form. But are still battling, in court and other venues, to get their due.

Over the last 2 years in particular I have helped NUMEROUS of these english investors. Not only at "no cost" to them but have actually incurred costs of my own in helping them. Also at the expense of causing myself personal problems (threats and being physically attacked by the current builder that has screwed them at "Viva Vida") in helping these folks, only to get a small handful of english like our idiot friend "beenthere" (you just have to love the username!) that responds to someone's good advice, and also to someone helping them and in the process costing himself money and making problems for himself, all in the name of "gringo goodwill", if you wish to call it that, by thinking that I have some sort of "angle". That I'm out looking to screw people in some way, shape, or form. And if you read my posts from the very beginning you'll see that that is indeed what he has inferred.

Well, people like that I certainly don't need. And as I stated, unfortunately I have met some (only a small handful) gringo's here in Brazil that have been rooked and there was just no saving them. They've been so brainwashed by the people that have rooked them, or their pride is such that they just can't admit to the reality, that they attempt to make the guy that's giving good advice and attempting to sincerely help as being the bad guy or having another agenda.
You do have some sort of angle, you are selling property so of course you do ......
 
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RalphJ

New Member
My mistake Seppo, what I meant is this.

"A recent survey conducted by IPEA - Institute for Applied Economics Research, an accredited official research institution, showed that Natal is the safest city, among all capital cities of Brazilian States."

So if you knew Brazil as well as you claim to, you would have corrected me instead of just slagging me off.


Sorry, but I'm not a mindreader. And I take posts for their content, not for what some half-wit intended them to say.
 
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RalphJ

New Member
you don't even know how to post in a forum....lol. Nice post #61!:D
 
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