Blindness and stupidity when investing in Brazil

Discussion in 'Brazil Property' started by surfingbrazil, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    Since when is Morro do Alemao affecting the north east or any other part of Brazil besides Rio? Sort of like saying South Central L.A. will cause problems for you in Seattle.

    Corrupt politicians are everywhere, it is just that they are a lot more subtle in the developed nations. Have a look at the scandal about the former Homeland Defense Agency head in the US.

    Other than that you are right, exercise the same common sense you use when buying a property in your own country and you will lower the risks dramatically....
  2. Investec

    Investec New Member

    Beenthere thanks for your input .:cool:

    The reason for Morro do Alemao in MY case is that i am actually interested in purchasing property in this area(Like i said this was based on my own insight).
  3. debzor

    debzor New Member

    Utterly agree.

    It seems to me that many European developers have relocated to NE Brazil (Natal in particular), now that their traditional EU hunting grounds are drying up, and buyers are becoming more wise. Brazilian advice in NE Brazil is that Natal is overpriced and oversupplied, but only the foreigners will suffer.

    Yes it is great here, you can get fantastic deals, but the prices a lot of the developers offer are only good when compared to Europe. Brazilian bureaucracy is still a massive burden, yet it is the law and must be obeyed!

    Always look beyond the hype!!!
  4. fiona1

    fiona1 New Member

    I agree with the excellent points SurfingBrazil has mentioned. Also I like Portugeezer's points. We offer property in Brazil, as we know it is a growing and improving economy. But we only offer areas where Brazilians are buying - like Florianopolis, Sao Paulo, Porto Seguro, and one particular development we have in Fortaleza - is 80% Brazilian purchasers.
    Also, we have found that Brazilian developers, who are are not familiar with dealing with foreign investors, tend not to overinflate prices.
    But no matter where you buy - never just believe the agent - do your own research. And dont rely on "future" improvements, take the market for what it is now. :)

    Fresh Home for Investors : Fresh Property Co.
  5. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    Beenthere....are you an agent?? LOL!! I see you didn't respond to my last post to you.

    So, tell me, do you have proof that there will NOT be manned space missions to Mars in the next 25 years?:rolleyes: I want to see the proof as I know some agents that are starting to sell offplan there!!

    The last time you asked me for proof I asked you what you wanted, the newspaper articles concerning Keifer Robins or the police warrants? And concerning Viva Vida I asked you if you wanted testimony of the 33 homeowners...which one came in my thread and made a post, or the court documents from the lawsuits against the builder/agents? Please, just let me know, because I have access to any of the above you may need.;)

    As far as you commenting on morro de alemão, that's one of the worst favelas in the country! That place has a death rate of well over 120 per 100K!!! The entire country of Brazil's death rate is 27 per 100K and those naturally don't include the thousands and thousands that come up missing every year! As far as the northeast goes did you know that the most violent and dangerous cities are indeed in the northeast! Camaragibe, Pernambuco, a small city close to Recife last year recorded 181 deaths per 100,000!! To put that into perspective the most violent city in the U.S. before hurricane Katrina was New Orleans which had a murder rate of 53.1 per 100K!!! Do you want brazil's murder statistics? They're not pretty, and one can easily understand why brazil waited so long to start keeping statistics....semi-accurate ones anyway.

    Do you want to hear the part that I didn't tell the you about concerning Viva Vida here in Aracaju?? Besides paying 50-150% more than what the brazilian homeowners paid in the very same condominium for the very same houses, with the exception of a 1500-2000 pound sterling furniture package from Casa Bahia, besides the fact that every single one of them have been or are being extorted for another 10,000 reais, which they already paid 3+ years ago to an agent in England, Howard Davis, who proceeded to "disappear" for several months with monies paid for properties, they're being "asked" to repay this 10,000 to get their deeds, which only a couple of them have paid to this point and the one that I know that has paid still hasn't gotten his deed, do you want to hear the "kicker" in all of this?

    Naturally the wonderful, information-filled, honest agents in England that sold Viva Vida sold it as a "100% secure condominium, with armed security guards, electric fences, gated community, 24 hour door men" etc, etc. Well, they allowed people to start moving into the condominium before there ever was an electric fence, before there ever was a security guard, and the night that an English investor from London, a recent purchaser of a home in Viva Vida, Kevin Scott, got shot in the leg while being robbed in his home, hitting his main artery and lay on the floor losing half the blood in his body.....there wasn't even a doorman!!
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  6. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    Are you seriously going to attempt and compare political corruption in the U.S. and Brazil? I mean come on Did you know that in 2006 the brazilian federal gov't. did an audit on ALL municipalities in Brazil and they found 93% of ALL municipalities had accounting irregularities!!!


    And those are the ones they found!

    When a country has 40+ million of it's own citizens making less than 2 dollars a day it kind of increases the severity and effects of corruption when you see guys like the ex-governor of Sao Paulo, and current senator, get caught with 450 million dollars in a swiss bank account, serve 30 days in jail, and then go back to the senate to steal more. The difference between brazil and most other countries in respect to corruption, besides it being the rule here instead of the impunity!!! Not only do the politicians here not go to jail, but they get re-elected.
  7. deedee1

    deedee1 New Member

    :)Hi all,

    YES but in comaparison isnt this similar to the eposure of for example eastern european countries??
    Spain is a prime example of corruption through and through right on our doorstep in a well known EU country!!!! Marbella being the capital of corruption in spain!!!!

    A country that we all thought we loved and knew so well, and felt that we were protected as they are so close to home AND IN THE EU!!!!
    But realistically It doesnt matter where you are- YOU ARE NEVER 100% safe from anything!!!


    Many countries have come to light in the press and are being pressurised by other countries to reform- this in fact is happening in alot of countries that are emerging!!!!

    They can crack down on alot but there will never be a corrupt free state, country or world Im afraid!!!!

    Take care-D
  8. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    That's true Dee...but some moreso than others n'eh?
  9. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Well I have to come out in upport of the offplan developments here as they might offer levels of security better than individual developments. Likeiwse, if they are good and honest then it will help naive investors who don't have the nous or wherewithall to go it alone. But for the pleasure of doing that and allegedly going down the easy route, they get ripped off on price. Likewise, they are mostly off the beaten track and not near to any amenities. The basic problem with off plan buyers is that many naive people have joined the end of the chain and thought it was an easy route to success. It's a bit like a chain letter or pyramid scam..those in early and the smart ones, get in and get out with some profit..the profit is taken from the fools that come later. I think the great measure of an investor who is less likely to get ripped off is one who travels to the markets place aside from an organised inspection trip, and does his own research and gets most important of all...his gut feel of the opportunity. Now buyers out there...look yourself in the mirror and in your eyes and ask yourself..did I go there, did I research it properly was I prepared to go the extra mile? If you can't answer yes to all those questions, you are at risk...big risk. As a matter of course, investors should go back to their agents and developers and ask very searching questions and also ask for discounts, put them under pressure, big pressure..ask them where the flights, new airport and golfers will come from. It's a bit like golf, you have to take your medicine and get back on the fairway..otherwise the end result will be a score much higher than you had hoped!
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  10. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    Are you seriously suggesting that a lot of US politicians are not corrupt!!! How much does it cost for a US senator to get into and stay in office? where does that money come from?

    Corruption in western countries is just a lot more subtle....
  11. JMBroad

    JMBroad New Member

    Someone mention US politicians after Oil before I do and open up a whole new meaning to this discussion.
  12. deedee1

    deedee1 New Member

    :)Hi all,

    GW-I do enjoy these debates and you are a character and I respect your opinions and views- BUT I am neither nieve or stupid- But you cannot say that one size fits all and that all offplan investments are stupid thats obserd!!!

    Never the less to a degree I agree with you that off plan developments are often inflated prices but you get the extra room, facilities, ammenities , better locations and added security and rental management facilities within these resorts which for alot of people compensates for the over inflated price!
    This in its self is why people are prepared to pay more for a large off plan development property than a small villa in the middle of nowhere on its own WITHOUT ALL OF THE ABOVE I MENTIONED!!!!

    So yet again ita about peoples preferances and PIECE OF MIND AND SECURITY!!

    People have choices and make their own choices just because their choice is not necessarily the same as yourself you have no right to call them stupid or nieve!!!

    Seems to me from the repetition of your postings and wording that your comments remain the same and are identical- Are you trying to re-justify YOUR own purchase and reasons for doing so by badgering others decision makings and deeming others to be the nieve and stupid ones, who clearly havent got a clue???
    Not my problem -deal with your own insecurities about your investment decisions first then criticise others as you may come across as a bit of a hypercrite!

    Investors make the most money from either off plan or land banking schemes- not odd villa fixerupper purchases dotted around the country!!


    Take care-D :)
  13. Golfingworld

    Golfingworld New Member

    Dee, my place will be finished before they even get your footings in and take a watering canw ith you for your next inspection visit so you can water the greens ready for my arrival! See my postings as consistent as by now you have gathered that I think offplan in NE Brazil is a rip off and not viable as an investment for gain. You just want to live there fine, but nobody should kid themselves that they will make money for years nor get any decent rentals.
  14. beenthere

    beenthere Guest

    At least her place will still be standing in 10 years time, it's highly doubtful that a place you got a 20% discount on will stand for long.
  15. debzor

    debzor New Member

    Please can anyone give more information, description, etc for the gent referred to frequently as 'Keifer' or 'Keith' here and elsewhere. A British man named Keith John or Keith Griffin has started to rip British people off in the Pernambucco area over the past 18 months or so, with vastly over inflated property prices and immigration promises. We know he is due at Natal airport to collect some 'clients' on Thurs 15/11, but he is so smooth he must have experience from elsewhere?

    Apparently his wife still lives in Spain, he travels with his Brazilian secretary/PA, Marly, and he drives a white Mondeo.
  16. michaelbush

    michaelbush New Member

    Guess the flight is with THomsons then. It should arrive at around 5pm if not delayed. Don't know how to warn these clients- any ideas- standing in the airport with a plaque? Hope before THursday we can get info from whoever it was who posted about Keifer.
    Could be Fed Police would be interested to investigae him!!
  17. deedee1

    deedee1 New Member

    :)Hi GW,

    I know we have a love hate relationship here and I do understand what you are saying and to a degree IDO AGREE!!

    The first 5 years will be tough for all in my opinion it should be seen as a long term investment and sghouldnt be entered into lightly if you are RELLYING ON A SET RENTAL INCOME TO COVER COST AND ARE RELYING ON THIS ENTIRELY AND IMMEDIATELY!!

    There are many off plan opportunities now in brazil and there will be lots of competition granted but because people are buying doesnt mean they are nieve and dont know what they are getting themselves into !!!!
    MOST are like that but not all!!!

    The truth is like they say by the time people have heard about the market emerging- its already too late as all will buy and follow!

    And by this point all the shrewd investors moved in at least 1-2 years before that bought cheap and sold on at a huge profit- but mainly LAND!!
    As this has the greatest reward, minimal risk and quick and easy exit strategies!!

    Take care-D
  18. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    No dickweek, I'm stating that the level of corruption in the U.S. is INFINITELY less than in countries like Brazil. And, I'm 100% aware of the corruption that exists in the U.S. in the form of PAC's and the military industrial don't come with that ****!

    Do you read AND comprehend english or just pretend to?
  19. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    "Keifer" supposedly got killed in an auto crash in Piaui around 5-6 months ago immediately after he received a transfer of 500,000 pounds sterling to his banco do brasil account!!!

  20. RalphJ

    RalphJ New Member

    Why don't you contact the Brazilian federal police and have them greet him at the airport?

    They just love gringos that come to brazil to steal from people!;)
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