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Ancient Sands - Investor's thoughts ...

Discussion in 'Egypt property' started by Sanchez, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    In my opinion it's the best investment opportunity presently available on the Red Sea.

    Here are a few reasons why I think it is ......
    Great prices (10% discount on pre-launch prices) considering it is set in the already proven / established El Gouna Town ... see El Gouna for those who don't know of El Gouna. This brings with it a fantastic infrastructure like school, university, hotels, roads, marina, golf course, restaurants, bars, clubs etc etc. Effectively this is reducing your investment risk.

    Quality development set around a world class golf course.

    The first phase is set on a hill, so will have fantastic views of the golf-course. lagoon, and beach.

    Only an initial 40% of value of property is required.
    20% on contract, 20% after six months. Balance on completion. Finance avail.

    Rental and Management options available after completion.

    A realistic "exit strategy" with the developer providing resale options. Resales possible after first 6 months.

    You can find out more at Ancient Sands Resort

    I have carefully considered Sahl Hasheesh, Marsa Alam, Gamsha Bay, Hurghada and for me Ancient Sands is the best investment.

    I don't have any financial interest in "singing the prasies" of Ancient Sands.
    I'm just very excited about my new town house : - )

    Do your own investigations / research, I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.
    There are some other excited people out there too ( 15 sold in the first week), so I'd be intersted to hear your comments, and which unit you have brought.

  2. SuziQ2708

    SuziQ2708 Guest

    Hi Dave, Just checked the website and I have to agree, very impressive, beautiful in fact. Any idea on prices? Wish we could afford to purchase two places, although we're more than happy with our Villa Apartment on Oasis Marina, I'm just greedy :D
  3. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Hi ya Suzanne,
    I know I'm tempted to buy another ..... but as you say it's easy to get greedy ; - )
    Prices range from about $157 000 USD up to $483 000 USD.
    These are 10% below what the launch prices will be.
    Glad you're happy with your purchase too : - )
  4. samui13

    samui13 New Member

    Wow this looks absolutely amazing.

    But.... way out of my price range. now where is that lottery ticket.

  5. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Not at all, if you register on the website you will get sent all the information ..... including a full price list. It's all very professionally done. : - )
  6. SuziQ2708

    SuziQ2708 Guest

    Quite expensive for pre-launch, but then as the development is not only in El Gouna which is an elite area already, also being on a Golf Course, say's it all really. You pay a premium in UK for Golf Course property too.
  7. Georgina

    Georgina New Member

    Is that where all the sand is going from digging out the new marina basin, to build a hill?

    Why, when El Gouna is growing so rapidly, is the present hill villa development so slow? It must have been started more than 8 years ago? Or even more?

    If we had heavy rain fall (unlikely) would it remain in place?

    Just a thought to throw into the discussions :)
  8. Lsab

    Lsab New Member

    It's interesting to have your thoughts G - you're 'on site' after all!
  9. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    LOL, if Ancient Sands was in London, then I'd be worried about it being washed away ( fantastic summer so far ... NOT !! ) , but I think we're pretty safe in El Gouna :)

    I don't know the stats on the Hill Villa developement, but the properties at the front with views to the beach are awesome. Wish I had one.

    I love properies with sea views, which is one of the key attractions of Ancient Sands .......... for me. Everyone has different tastes though.

  10. Georgina

    Georgina New Member

    Super Yacht Marina

    Just before the Ancient Sands and Fenadir Developments is the construction of the new Super Yacht Marina and apartments. My friend has bought a two bed apartment on the north side of the marina basin and we went today to check the progress. I was very impressed. Her apartment is enormous with an unusual shaped lounge, massive kitchen with loads of cupboards and drawers, two very big bedrooms but two quite small bathrooms with shower only. She then has an enormous roof terrace with views over the marina and over Mangroovy Beach to the sea. I am very jealous. I am not sure what she paid but I know when they launched the project two or so years ago I think the apartments were then going for around 1,500 USD per sq. m. Now probably nearer 3,000 USD! She will have a good view of the construction of Ancient Sands and Fenadir.

    I took a lot of photos which you can see here Georgina Cole's Photos - Super Yacht Marina | Facebook

    I hope it is OK to put these photos up on this forum. If it upsets anyone i.e. Orascom let me know and I will gladly delete them. But I think it is helpful for everyone to see the beautiful land. Who actually owns the land is another thing but I won't go there ;)
  11. NeilHollingsworth

    NeilHollingsworth New Member

    It looks spectacular and thats just the website:D With the one golf course and marina already there, it is certainly a more mature area and one that i feel will attract many people, and the prices very competitive compared to other markets.
  12. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Great pics Georgina. I remember looking at the plans for those apartments a while back, but by the time I knew about them it was kind of too late. Pre-Launches / Launches were a little more "secret squirrel" back then.

    I should have views down to the new marina from the my townhouse in Ancient Sands.

    As for the land ownership saga ... I'm sure everything will be cleared up pretty soon. I know 100% that any owners in Ancient Sands will also own the land their property is on. :)

  13. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Sahl Hasheesh prices in comparison .....

    you seem someone who is in the industry and would give an un-biased opinion ....
    What is your professional opinion on property prices in Sahl compared to say Ancient Sands.
    I think Sahl has a lot of potential and may even look to buy there myself at some point, but the prices do seem quite high for a development in such early stages.

    I had the option on a 2 bedroom apartment in Sahl Hasheesh in the El Andalous building for 180 000 euros. It was one about 4 back from the front / top floor with partial sea views South East. I think it was about 90 sq m ( not 100% sure ). The apartment was quite nice although the layout of the flat was a little unusual.

    You can get something comparable in size and price in Ancient Sands ( better layout / finishing ), based in El Gouna, with views out across golf course, lagoon, beach.

    I'm not knocking Sahl at all, but as an investor I made a decision to go with Ancient Sands.

    What are your thoughts ?

  14. NeilHollingsworth

    NeilHollingsworth New Member

    Hi Dave, i think you are right in that Sahl is very new and people need a good imagination to see the finished article. However i think once it is completed and as long as it is finished with all the facilities that are being touted around i feel it will be stunning and if someone has bought now, should see some excellent returns. I think €180,000 for the 2 bed is high though, you can get cheaper and just as good quality.

    Buying in El Gouna takes away the whole what if factor and risk because it already has a golf course, it already has a marina, this is the second golf course etc... It all adds up as a good buy and with prices still cheaper than other countries offering similar properties it still has good investment potential.

    At the end of the day though everyone is different and each person has their own reasons for buying/investing and this area is excellent as it offers something for everyone, from £15k studios up to multi-million pound villas plus an excellent climate, world class diving and now championship golf courses and spa's. What more could anyone want??
  15. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Yep, I totally agree. I just hope it doesn't change too much.
    It's a pretty awesome place just how it is ...... :)
  16. Organics1

    Organics1 New Member

    Hi All,

    I too have been waiting a while and really looking forward to see Ancient Sands (Along with numerous other investor friends) and have recently received the E-Brochure for it. I totally agree with everyone here it does look great but 125,000 GBP for a one bed apartment (inc. Furniture) on pre launch is taking the ****. Especially considering the two blocks that have been released. I was FULLY expecting these to be a lot higher than your average Hurghada apartment but God only knows how much the fairways apartments will be! oh and three years is only for the first phase completion, so you'll be living on a build site for a few years after that too.

    I 100% agree with Neil. Why have 50,000 GBP tied up in this for three years (40% of 125,000 GBP) when for the same money or less you can buy in EL Gouna with an already established track record, not only with foreign investors but with Egyptians alike. I would have fully expected these to be somewhere between the prices of Sahl and EL Gouna. Making them comparable in price to EL Gouna is not a good investment in my mind and if anyone on here does think it's a good idea list your reasons, maybe I'm in cuckoo land!

    Why not start earning on your money straight away both from rental income and capital appreciation and buy Across the road.

    Then there's the "offer" of the management scheme! So not only is the 14% "anticipated" you then are deducted 4% for maintenance and then you receive 50% of that. Hmmm

    Actually I could go on with loads of other reasons but to be honest I think I've said enough.

    I look forward to hearing the "real" reasons why people think this a "great" investment instead of what else is available and not just about how great the resort will look. I am more than happy if I have stated anything incorrect to be corrected and if there is a good enough argument I may still be swayed. But at this stage it has to be some argument.

  17. Organics1

    Organics1 New Member

    Sorry just has to had that the price is in Dollars which is great at the moment but the Dollar is anticipated to get stronger so this could end up costing you more because of exchange rates. It sounds like Sanchez has bought there so maybe he has more news of other currencies you can pay in.
  18. Jeremy Sturgess

    Jeremy Sturgess New Member

    Tamer is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. I would just point out that the when he refers to 1 beds being 125k including furniture he is referring to the most expensive 1 beds with extra large roof terraces in prime positions. There are only 5 of these and and only 1 remains. The other 4, nos 26,38,11,15 are all reserved and were almost the first units to go. So the market seems to be saying they are not expensive, particularly as the finishing is to a much higher spec than normally available in Egypt.

    The vast majority of 1 beds are priced lower starting at around Stlg 110k incl the furniture pack.

    The studios, which are more like most other schemes' 1 beds in size, start at around stlg 87.5k incl furniture pack. These are also proving popular with investors.

    In terms of dollar pricing - my personal view is that this is attractive for sterling and euro denominated investors. I dont profess to know where the dollar is going (no one does) but instinctively I feel now is a good time to be swapping out of stlg and euros and into dollar based assets. It is quite easy to fix the forward rate with a currency firm and we have a deal with Caxton FX to facilitate this.

    I hope we will manage to change Tamers mind on this :) I will be happy to show you around if you want to come on an inspection visit which is really the best way t o understand the differential pricing between Gouna and other locations in Egypt.

    Best regards

  19. Sanchez

    Sanchez New Member

    Hi Organics,
    some interesting thoughts ........ some of which I think are quite good points.
    There's always different ways to think about things .... I'll jot down my thoughts to your points. These are just my thoughts, everyone has different investment / living criteria. For example, some people think El Gouna is too quiet, other people think Hurghada is a mad house ... it's horses for courses.

    I think one of the key things to consider is that Ancient Sands is part of El Gouna.
    It's not a seperate town, but a developement within El Gouna. You will get an El Gouna owners card and the benefits of all the facilities that El Gouna has to offer.

    Ancient sands is not cheap, I definatley agree. However the risk in your investment is greatly reduced because it is part of the already established El Gouna Town which has taken 12 + years to get where it is today. It will be one of the newest and most exclusive parts of El Gouna, and of course one of the more expensive areas.

    Will the units be worth a lot more in 3 years time ..... I believe so, otherwise I wouldn't have brought. The developers are estimating 30% by the time the first phase is released. I guess only time will tell for sure, but going on previous phase releases in El Gouna I think 30% is obtainable.

    Using the pre-release payment plan, only 40% of the unit price is required.
    This works well if you plan to sell on or close to completion as the capital gain ( est 30% ) is on the full value of the unit. For this reason the 3 year completion time doesn't worry me. I also think the market may be stronger then with the introduction of mortgages in Egypt to foreigners, and credit issues in the UK / US should be better by then.

    The US dollar is definately a risk, this is a good point, and one that has to be considered. There are a number of ways to offset this risk. Maybe the devlopers will come up with some other options too .....

    The rental / management scheme is not compulsary. You can rent it privately if you wish. I do agree with you that getting 5% out of an estimated 14% isn't fantastic, but it's "hassle free" income, and is comparable to having the investment in the bank, whilst getting capital gain on your unit.

    Ancient Sands won't be for everyone. It's exclusive and near the top end of the market in a similar way to El Gouna on a whole. Wealthy Egyptians love El Gouna, and along with the higher end of the market Europeans / Brits make up the main resale market. This gives a realistic "exit plan". Personally I was looking to invest in something that has that little bit extra that sets it apart from the competition from a resale point of view, and also somewhere I would be happy to live should I decide to.

    Organics, it's great to hear some of your thoughts / concerns.

    Everything considered, I think the pricing is ok, and am very happy with my investment. :)

    BTW - I don't think Neil suggested buying in earlier phases of El Gouna would be a better idea .... ????

  20. NeilHollingsworth

    NeilHollingsworth New Member

    I wasn't suggesting that, i was merely suggesting El Gouna was a safer buy due to having certain infrastructure already in place and i was encompassing AS within El Gouna as a whole.
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