The Dubai Investment Coalition Planning Thread

[maximusprime]

This thread will be the place where the "Directors" (those who attend the meetings) of the Investment Coalition will work out the details regarding how to organize group purchases. Here, important issues will be highlighted and argued until a suitable solution is reached. Issues brought up in this thread will be noted and solutions voted upon in the meetings in an effort to establish a set of well defined operating procedures. To get started, here are some of the points brought up in the last meeting (and some others I thought of later). All open for discussion, we are trying to find the best solution here.

1. How to distribute good views and bad views within a floor when purchasing as a group.
Solutions offered:
-1st come 1st served
-Draw numbers
-Battle Royale

2. The need to define a window of action. By deciding in advance approximately when we will want to make an investment. Those who wish to be involved can free up the necessary funds in time.
Proposed time:
-The month of september

3. Definition of acceptable terms. It will not be possible for all 100 of us to walk into a developers office and start negotiating. A few representatives will be sent to negotiate on behalf of the group. The line between deal and no deal needs to be established before negotiations begin. The negotiator(s) will not accept any deals that are not within the guidelines previously established by the group. These terms will be defined and investors can decide whether they are in or out based on these terms.

4. The organizational framework. Distinguishing between active members and passive or remote investors without excluding anyone from contributing intellectually, or professionally. The active members will do the legwork, they will look for the properties, they will decide on terms. The passive investors need only to say yes or no and write the cheques when they want to invest (very good for friends and family in other countries). The meetings will not be exclusive however and anyone who feels they have something to contribute will be welcome.
-Personally, I think there should be a well defined leadership to keep the meetings organized and prevent a situation where you have a room full of 300 people al shouting their opinions at once and achieving nothing.

The issue of trust. Some suggested pooling all the money together. This brings up a lot of problems with trust. By allowing each member to hold his/her own property in his/her own name, you eliminate the chance of dishonesty and conflict in the case of a deal going sour (again, just my own personal opinion). There is however the possiblilty of a director pooling the funds of his passive investors (people who know and trust him) in which case the rest of group need not be concerned.

Incorporation. We may need to cover our asses

I propose the next meeting be held Sat. Aug 2nd.

Ok, talk away, lets get this ball rolling and make some money people!

 

[haider_dubai]

Hi, thanks for starting a new and unique post... it will rock.

I again emphasis, WE NEED LIKE MINDED PEPOLE

I believe we need to make a frame work as soon as possible.

All the best to the group

 

[Roshan]

The intention of forming a community is that everybody benifits. We could further analyse as follows. I am mentioning groups so that I can make my point clear and in no way mean to divide the members.

Group 1 : The Investors who have already done deals will go for bigger deals.

Group 2 : The members who have not started and want to start will receive help from the experienced members. These members will move to group 1 in time to come.

Group 3 : Then you will have members who are hesitant and need some education, where we will have presentation by people in the industry. Meetings can be arranged where we could have mortgage brokers or anybody from the industry to talk. These members in time to come will move to group 2.

It's an evolving process where members in time to come will have the confidence. The members who want to start immediately can by all means go ahead. This adds value to the profile of the group.

Not all investors would want to invest at the same time. Some might want to start immediately, while some might kick start only after a year. The members who start late could add value for future investments.

I will post a "Frequently asked questions " by tomorrow so that everybody gets the picture.

Regards

Roshan

 

[haider_dubai]

FAQ's is a great idea ... nice work

The intention of forming a community is that everybody benifits. We could further analyse as follows. I am mentioning groups so that I can make my point clear and in no way mean to divide the members.

Group 1 : The Investors who have already done deals will go for bigger deals.

Group 2 : The members who have not started and want to start will receive help from the experienced members. These members will move to group 1 in time to come.

Group 3 : Then you will have members who are hesitant and need some education, where we will have presentation by people in the industry. Meetings can be arranged where we could have mortgage brokers or anybody from the industry to talk. These members in time to come will move to group 2.

It's an evolving process where members in time to come will have the confidence. The members who want to start immediately can by all means go ahead. This adds value to the profile of the group.

Not all investors would want to invest at the same time. Some might want to start immediately, while some might kick start only after a year. The members who start late could add value for future investments.

I will post a "Frequently asked questions " by tomorrow so that everybody gets the picture.

Regards

Roshan

 

[maximusprime]

The intention of forming a community is that everybody benifits. We could further analyse as follows. I am mentioning groups so that I can make my point clear and in no way mean to divide the members.

Group 1 : The Investors who have already done deals will go for bigger deals.

Group 2 : The members who have not started and want to start will receive help from the experienced members. These members will move to group 1 in time to come.

Group 3 : Then you will have members who are hesitant and need some education, where we will have presentation by people in the industry. Meetings can be arranged where we could have mortgage brokers or anybody from the industry to talk. These members in time to come will move to group 2.

It's an evolving process where members in time to come will have the confidence. The members who want to start immediately can by all means go ahead. This adds value to the profile of the group.

Not all investors would want to invest at the same time. Some might want to start immediately, while some might kick start only after a year. The members who start late could add value for future investments.

I will post a "Frequently asked questions " by tomorrow so that everybody gets the picture.

Regards

Roshan

Good idea Roshan.

There will be many different people attracted to this community for many different reasons, there will need to be something for everyone in order for it to be successful. The first timers will enter it as a learning process, and will gain valueable knowlege and experience by interacting with the more experienced members who will help them through every step of the process. The more experienced will be more interested in the negotiations and directing the activities of the group, and making big deals. If they are divided though, nobody wins. If all the meetings involve all the members, experienced people may find them too "elementary" and not worth their time, and it may also be too disorganized to get anything done. That is why there should be a leadership comitee of those who wish to take a more active role. The less experienced members will be able to see how the experienced guys work and learn as they go through the process of negotiating and buying properties as a group. I think what you are saying is right on Roshan, this should be a place where everyone benefits both financially and intellectually.

 

[mpat]

Good work

Good idea Roshan.

There will be many different people attracted to this community for many different reasons, there will need to be something for everyone in order for it to be successful. The first timers will enter it as a learning process, and will gain valueable knowlege and experience by interacting with the more experienced members who will help them through every step of the process. The more experienced will be more interested in the negotiations and directing the activities of the group, and making big deals. If they are divided though, nobody wins. If all the meetings involve all the members, experienced people may find them too "elementary" and not worth their time, and it may also be too disorganized to get anything done. That is why there should be a leadership comitee of those who wish to take a more active role. The less experienced members will be able to see how the experienced guys work and learn as they go through the process of negotiating and buying properties as a group. I think what you are saying is right on Roshan, this should be a place where everyone benefits both financially and intellectually.

Guys,
good work and good ideas ,. . . lets hope that we can achieve the best of what we are expecting out of it within a very short and simple way.
I m with you guys,
Bye

 

[Roshan]

Good idea Roshan.

There will be many different people attracted to this community for many different reasons, there will need to be something for everyone in order for it to be successful. The first timers will enter it as a learning process, and will gain valueable knowlege and experience by interacting with the more experienced members who will help them through every step of the process. The more experienced will be more interested in the negotiations and directing the activities of the group, and making big deals. If they are divided though, nobody wins. If all the meetings involve all the members, experienced people may find them too "elementary" and not worth their time, and it may also be too disorganized to get anything done. That is why there should be a leadership comitee of those who wish to take a more active role. The less experienced members will be able to see how the experienced guys work and learn as they go through the process of negotiating and buying properties as a group. I think what you are saying is right on Roshan, this should be a place where everyone benefits both financially and intellectually.

That's it Max. All the segments whether it's learning, first time investing or big deals investing all are equally important. Members should benifit financially and intellectually, as they progress, they go from a learning group to an investing group.

Not all the members can come to a table at one time. As proposed. If I have 20 members under me, I become the contact point. If you have 40, you become the contact point....so on and so forth. When someone below you wants to sound a project, he contacts you and you sound the other team leaders in the community. If all the members need to come together for a launch presentation, we book a venue and we share the costs, which should not be much.

To explain to other members who are not aware of the term " team leader " . There are no special pre equisites for a team leader. If one can gather members under him, he becomes a team leader. That team leader cordinates with the person who introduced him and they become a bigger group. It will be like a pyramid.

You are right. Each one's interest will be different. Members learn as they network and progress to different groups.

Sometime, somewhere we can have a meeting with all members so that we put a name to a face. This will not give us a chance not only to meet but also build team work. A We could play a real estate tutorial movie, have a speaker talk on the market or a banker to talk on different mortgages, which will get members interested in the benifits of joining the group. I know how much one can benifit from a real estate audio visual movies. I feel it's a fantastic tool when you get people under one roof. Sorry, if I repeat the same things, but I have to do it when i need to get the point across to other members who are not convinced.

Audio / visual movies play an important part in development. It gives you tips and education on how the big guys play. For eg, Wouldn't you like to see a Donald Trump visual where he would give you tips on investing. I would love to. Everyday is a learning process. You learn a lot when you see / hear real estate gurus present.

I did mention at the meeting that a draft was ready to send out. Decided to change the draft which I had prepared, I am now changing it to a FAQ format, so that it is in small bits and pieces instead of one big email which will cover all what we have discussed and the questions a member would typically ask.

Will be in touch.

Regards


Roshan

 

[maximusprime]

Very good, I have guys in the states who are interested but it is a lot for them to take in all at once. I think a quick, concise outline of exactly how the plan works will be very helpful in convincing them. By the way, someone said that the organization chart didnt attach to the email I sent. Did you guys recieve it? (my office server is kind of tricky about these things).

 

[Sally1980]

Very good, I have guys in the states who are interested but it is a lot for them to take in all at once. I think a quick, concise outline of exactly how the plan works will be very helpful in convincing them. By the way, someone said that the organization chart didnt attach to the email I sent. Did you guys recieve it? (my office server is kind of tricky about these things).

Hi guys,

Nice proposals. Roshan (means lichtning in persian),you have enlichtning idea's I must say.
Maximums, good idea's as well, but I also haven't received any email with the organization chart from you ([email protected]). We need to make sure that we have the correct email adresses from everyone, so everyone can follow everything and knows through which channels we communicate.

I'm curious for the organization chart as I blieve that we can divide tasks to active members, for example Event Organizer (takes care of inviting the members / speakers to events and chooses location, etc),Relationship Officer (makes ties with developers, morgagers etc. and envites them to the group),Financial Officer (gives members info on how the finance/payment of investments takes place, also the finance of the organization, i.e. if we take a place for an event, for which we have to pay, he can collect a small fee from members for this purpose etc),Information Officer etc etc.

 

[Sally1980]

As promised I emailed the framework for identifying good pre-launch investment oppertunities, but I will put it here as well since I don't know if everyone received it:


Good developer: so the off-plan property actually turns into a "real property" within a decent timeframe and quality

Location: since we want to be somewhere that is attractive for most people to live/invest and in demand for when you want to sell. I always say investors see only in Blue and Green. Blue for See, canal or lake and Green for park, lawns or golf courses.

Paymentplan: is especially important for the leverage. When the payment plan allows you to start off with 5%, every 1% increase in your selling price = 20% profit. This effect takes off when the payments are heavier. An normal
paymentplan would be 10% downpayment, and every 3 months 10%. If we are buying floors in pre launch, we rather want to pay 5% downpayment and 10% every 4months or payments related to the stage of construction.

Price: We should always compare the price to the market price for the properties in that location, both when buying direct from developer and in re-sale. Good example is Badrah, which was way cheaper than other properties in Dubai Waterfront and even Downtown Jebel Ali at the time of launch of phase one.

Finance availabililty: is important, perhaps not for us, but perhaps for our buyer when you are looking to sell. When the property has finance, it is accessible for a wider public / prospective buyers increasing our chance to sell.

Transaction fee's: When buying in bulk, you get one transfer free, so your buyer does'nt pay transfer cost when buying from you, which makes the total selling price lower. We can negotiate two free transfer so the buyer of our buyer get's the transfer for free as well.

 

[haider_dubai]

Good points sally, our group has tons and tons of knowledge. I wonder if some one has worked out the current market rates PSF for differnst areas it would be help full in future .

(Mess with the best - Die like the rest )

As promised I emailed the framework for identifying good pre-launch investment oppertunities, but I will put it here as well since I don't know if everyone received it:


Good developer: so the off-plan property actually turns into a "real property" within a decent timeframe and quality

Location: since we want to be somewhere that is attractive for most people to live/invest and in demand for when you want to sell. I always say investors see only in Blue and Green. Blue for See, canal or lake and Green for park, lawns or golf courses.

Paymentplan: is especially important for the leverage. When the payment plan allows you to start off with 5%, every 1% increase in your selling price = 20% profit. This effect takes off when the payments are heavier. An normal
paymentplan would be 10% downpayment, and every 3 months 10%. If we are buying floors in pre launch, we rather want to pay 5% downpayment and 10% every 4months or payments related to the stage of construction.

Price: We should always compare the price to the market price for the properties in that location, both when buying direct from developer and in re-sale. Good example is Badrah, which was way cheaper than other properties in Dubai Waterfront and even Downtown Jebel Ali at the time of launch of phase one.

Finance availabililty: is important, perhaps not for us, but perhaps for our buyer when you are looking to sell. When the property has finance, it is accessible for a wider public / prospective buyers increasing our chance to sell.

Transaction fee's: When buying in bulk, you get one transfer free, so your buyer does'nt pay transfer cost when buying from you, which makes the total selling price lower. We can negotiate two free transfer so the buyer of our buyer get's the transfer for free as well.

 

[Sally1980]

Hi Haider,

Better homes has made an avreage price index for Dubai Properties that you can find on the following website: Dubai property: Average price index | Dubai Property

Also on Land Department in the section "interactive" you can find a "Map" and a "Chart" indicating in which areas most interactions are made, their value and value/sqf. However the figures are rather strange sometime and depends on which variables / angels they have used to measure the outcome.

However, everytime we need to search for competitor prices in a certain are to get accurate prices.

 

[Roshan]

Hi guys,

Nice proposals. Roshan (means lichtning in persian),you have enlichtning idea's I must say.
Maximums, good idea's as well, but I also haven't received any email with the organization chart from you ([email protected]). We need to make sure that we have the correct email adresses from everyone, so everyone can follow everything and knows through which channels we communicate.

I'm curious for the organization chart as I blieve that we can divide tasks to active members, for example Event Organizer (takes care of inviting the members / speakers to events and chooses location, etc),Relationship Officer (makes ties with developers, morgagers etc. and envites them to the group),Financial Officer (gives members info on how the finance/payment of investments takes place, also the finance of the organization, i.e. if we take a place for an event, for which we have to pay, he can collect a small fee from members for this purpose etc),Information Officer etc etc.

The responsibilities will have to be confined to a group and not to an individual. Within the group we can identify people who would like to assist.

The only expenses we will incur will be when we take up a venue for a meeting, otherwise the membership is free.

The FAQ will be ready over the weekend, been spending late hours at work. I have sounded a few guys at my place of work and they are all set to join. I sounded a few agents and developers and they expressed an interest.

I came across this saying which I found apt, hope you guys enjoy it. We will have more info when we have the next meeting. More members can join if required :

The person who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.

Will have the FAQ posted and emailed over the weekend.

Regards

Roshan

 

[haider_dubai]

Sally1980 , i will send the names e mail addresses and the contact details tonight , I took them during the meeting , i will send to every one through e mail.

All the best

 

[bluelight]

shall i hold on to the investments I am about to make and wait for sept.

How to enroll?

 

[PropGuy]

count me in

 

[MinDTraX]

This thread really looks like a great plan!!! Count me in as well mindtrax at hotmail dot com

 

[haider_dubai]

Can you put some light how this escrow works and how much initial nvestment is required

Can I suggest something here at this stage.
Since you guys are going to invest togather, you have one more option in your pocket.

1. Form a company.
2. Register as a developer.
3. Register your project.

If you understand how escrow works then you will definatly consider this option on the table as well.
As a developer you will not pay even a single penny from your pocket.
All the exepenses for marketing and management will be avilable from escrow as soon as investment will come into it..
Even you will get your money paid for the land purchased.

Profit is way more than you are expecting from these individual investments.

All this is possible. Only when you know how escrow works and ofcourse you act togather.

 

[maximusprime]

If we find it necessary to incorporate, I have an LLC in the US that I am planning on registering here in the RAK free zone, which we could use. I also thought of another caveat that we will need to consider. We need to have some way of ensuring that no one backs out of the deal once we have began negotiation. If we come to an agreement with a developer, and someone backs out at the last minute, it could ruin the whole deal. Just food for thought.

Lets go ahead and start making and agenda for the next meeting and set a date.

 

[Roshan]

Can I suggest something here at this stage.
Since you guys are going to invest togather, you have one more option in your pocket.

1. Form a company.
2. Register as a developer.
3. Register your project.

If you understand how escrow works then you will definatly consider this option on the table as well.
As a developer you will not pay even a single penny from your pocket.
All the exepenses for marketing and management will be avilable from escrow as soon as investment will come into it..
Even you will get your money paid for the land purchased.

Profit is way more than you are expecting from these individual investments.

All this is possible. Only when you know how escrow works and ofcourse you act togather.

pm'd a request to you. I am quite impressed with your advice. The idea of a forming a community is to invest, network, offer unbiased advice, help beginners.

You could add value by joining.

Regards

Roshan